Welcome to our book club for A Tree Grows in Brooklyn. Today we'll be discussing Chapters 52-56. The end of the book! SOB!! We have next week to do a deep dive into the entire book and then we'll be done with the Cool Bloggers Bookclub (TM Birchie).
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Synopsis: Francie gets her heart broken by a no-good soldier boy. McShane asks Katie to marry him and for him to be allowed to adopt Laurie. Granma Rommely dies, Francie accepts a promise ring from Ben (*yuck* - editorializing from me), and Francie does a nostalgia tour of the neighborhood before she goes off to college at the University of Michigan. Fin.
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Things I looked up:
The ordering of Army ranks: I was confused by Lee's rank (corporal or general based on two different references in Chapter 52). I think Lee was probably a corporal and someone called him a general as a joke/sort of compliment to someone about to ship off to war. Most of the following came straight from the Army website. Here there are from lowest to highest ranks. Feel free skip all of this nonsense, or if you want to read it super carefullly, to correct any errors you might find.
Enlisted ranks:
Private First Class
Specialist - can manage enlisted soldiers of lower rank
Corporal - team leader of the smallest Army units
Sergeant - oversees soldiers' daily tasks and often lead a team or section of soldiers that are slightly bigger than a corporal's team, but usually only up to four soldiers
Staff Sergeant - oversees a squad of 8-16 soldiers
Sergeant First Class - generally has 10-15 years of Army experience
First Sergeant
Seargeant Major
Command Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major of the Army
Officer ranks:
Captain - leads a company, 60-200 soldiers
Major - often lead brigades and task forces
Lieutenant Colonel - leads a battalion, 300-1000 soldiers
Colonel - leads a brigade, 1500-3200 soldiers
Brigadier General
Major General - leads a division, 10,000 - 16,000 soldiers
Lieutenant General - leads a corps, 20,000-40,000 soldiers
General
General of the Army
 |
| RBG is the most famous jabot wearer I could think of. |
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Select quotes (I'm limiting myself to no more than one a chapter!):
Chapter 52:
And she promised away her whole life as simply as she'd offered a hand in greeting or farewell. (page 460)
Oh, Francie. Young and dumb.
Chapter 53:
"It's come at last," she thought, "the time when you can no longer stand between your children and heartache. When there wasn't enough food in the house you pretended that you weren't hungry so they could have more. In the cold of a winter's night you got up and put your blanket on their bed so they wouldn't be cold. You'd kill anyone who tried to harm them - I tried my best to kill that man in the hallway. Then one sunny day, they walk out in all innocence and they walk right into the grief that you'd give your life to spare them." (page 463)
The next few chapters make me remember why I was so pro-Katie at the start of the book. Think of all she sacrificed for her children and all she's going to continue to sacrifice for Laurie.
Chapter 54:
"I will marry you because you are a good man and I'd like to have you for my husband."
It was true. Katie had made up her mind to marry him - if he asked her - simply because life was incomplete without a man to love her. It had nothing to do with her love for Johnny. She'd always love him. Her feeling for McShane was quieter. She admired and respected him and she knew she'd be a good wife to him. (page 470)
More on this quote in the question section.
Chapter 55:
Even Neely said it would be a good thing for her to go far off to college - she might get rid of her Brooklyn accent that way. But Francie didn't want to get rid of it any more than she wanted to get rid of her name. It meant that she belonged to some place. She was a Brooklyn girl with a Brooklyn name and a Brooklyn accent. She didn't want to change into a bit of this and a bit of that. (page 478)
I was at a party over Labor Day weekend with a linguist and we spent a lot of time analyzing our accents because the Northern Cities vowel shift is alive and well in many of the Midwesterners present. There are some divides (I say milk and not melk, for example, and was laughed at for my pronunciation of "mom" which I guess sounds like "mahm," but I don't hear it), but the linguist just laughed at all of us and said that vowels in English are quite mobile, which became the motto of the night. (Also from the linguist: You all just sound like educated Americans. As long as your meaning is clear, your communication is okay. I like his approach.) It's interesting to think about how you speak identifies your background so clearly.
Vowels are mobile! (Just imagine six adults repeatedly saying this over and over again and you get an idea of what a good time with us is like.)
It's also interesting to wonder if Francie will feel like she belongs to Brooklyn when her family moves on to a new home. Since my mother doesn't live in the place where I grew up anymore, I don't really feel like I belong in my hometown anymore. ATGIB says that Francie's old neighborhood will be greatly changed in the years to come (tenements torn down, etc.) and I do wonder if someday Francie will feel like she belongs to someplace that no longer exists.
Chapter 56:
In the two years since she had last looked on the school, Francie had changed from a child to a woman.
She went home past the house whose address she had claimed. It looked little and shabby to her now, but she still loved it. (page 485)
SOB!
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Mentions of the word hat (I can't help myself):
She snatched her gray hat and her new gray purse and gloves from her locker. (page 480) - At least it isn't a green hat.
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Questions for you:
1) Francie can do better than Ben Blake, right? Pompous know-it-all. Grumble, grumble.
2) Katie's explanation for marrying McShane is that he can support her family and her life isn't complete without a man to love her. No mention of her loving him. (See the above quote from Chapter 54). I'm so sad for Katie AND McShane here. Do you think this is enough to build a solid relationship? Do you think this marriage will last?
3) Were you satisfied with the ending here? Did you feel like you got enough closure on our main characters? What about our secondary and tertiary characters? Anyone you want to know more about?
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My head canon for post-book:
1) Francie is Betty Smith, so she becomes a famous playwright and novelist.
2) Katie and McShane have a tolerable marriage. Katie resents his children from his first marriage and Laurie is absolutely spoiled and insufferable.
3) Neely is a very successful salesman. He suffers in the Great Depression, but rebounds. He never marries.
4) Sissy and Evy basically mooch off of Katie, but the three sisters are tight for the rest of their lives.
5) Flossie - I don't know. I want to know more about how she turned out.
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Were there any quotations or lines that particularly stood out to you? Did you have to look anything up?
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Upcoming schedule:
September 18 (entire book wrap up)
I loved the ending. I thought the last chapter was one of the best last chapters in any book. I found it so moving - you cannot see things in the same way, when you look upon them later in your life. I have found that to be so true of my childhood neighbourhood, of my grandparents' home, of anything I remember from my childhood. It's just so different with adult eyes.
ReplyDeleteI liked Ben, I thought he was a decent guy.
The soldier on the other hand...I kind of forgot that part. I thought it was so interesting, the part about him wanting to spend the night with Francie, and the discussion Francie has with her mother. On the one hand, says Katie, you'd be ruined. On the other hand, it would have been beautiful. Not sure I'd agree about beautiful, since it would have been Francie's first time and I'm not sure how skilled soldier-boy was, but I thought it was such an interesting thing. What a jerk that guy was, and the letter from the wife. Whew.
I think Katie and McShane's marriage will last. Katie is a practical woman, and I've seen marriages last a long time on less. I think of it less love and more partnership and stability, and marriages have survived on less. I think McShane deeply respects Katie, and she him, and so I think it's really nice. Love can grow from that. I also love that McShane never considered that he'd be a father to Neeley and Francie, but they thought they might call him "Dad."
I loved the parallelism between the first few chapters and the last chapter. It is beautifully done. It definitely hits me harder NOW than it did when I was younger because when I go back to my hometown, it's so very weird. You really can't go home again.
DeleteI think Ben is an obnoxious know-it-all. LOL. I guess we've all dated a Ben, though. Francie will get over him quickly, I bet.
I didn't mind Ben, but also felt like he was forgettable? Which seemed a bit sad since Francie is so memorable. Like Nicole, I had completely forgotten about Lee. Ugh.
ReplyDeleteI do think Katie and McShane will be happy together. I think McShane is marrying an energetic woman who needed stability to really thrive, and Katie is marrying someone who will provide and truly loves her. Their love story at the end was one of my favourite parts of the book. And I LOVED how he didn't expect them to call him father but they offered up "Dad".
I didn't love the ending - I just felt...sad. I remember LOVING this book so much when I first read it. Maybe I'm just emotionally raw, but I kinda felt depressed by the end. The family has been through so much and it just seemed like problem after problem...and so it feels like that's how things will continue for them. Also, did I miss it...or did they talk about the tin nailed in the closet where they have been saving money?
Quotes: "In truth, she didn't want him [Lee] to see where she lived. She loved her neighbourhood and wasn't ashamed of it. But she felt that to a stranger who didn't know about it the way she did, it might seem a mean and shabby place." Can you not feel ashamed and yet act ashamed, as Francie did? Maybe she is just reading social cues, but this made me sad for poor Francie.
"...dear," he prompted.
"Dear," she added.
When Lee made Francie call him Dear...RAGE. I felt RAGE!!!!!
"People always think that happiness is a far away thing, something complicated and hard to get. Yet, little things can make it up; a place of shelter when it rains - a cup of strong hot coffee when you're blue; for a man, a cigarette for contentment; a book to read when you're alone - just to be with someone you love. Those little things make happiness." Amen, Francie (minus the cigarette part).
Oh, I thought the ending was bittersweet - kind of sad, but ultimately hopeful. I have real hopes for Francie and Neely and Katie will scoot along. I really admire Katie so much for all her sacrifices and I feel like the ending almost brings it around to Katie as the main character again.
DeleteLee just made me irate the whole time! He knew what he was doing, he know Francie was young! I was screaming when he tried to seduce her and I'm so glad Francie didn't fall into bed with him.
I highlighted that quote about the little things too! Loved that one.
DeleteI loved all those quotes, too. And Elisabeth, re: the bank. They never nailed it down again after Katie paid for Johnny's plot in the cemetery, because they "owned land now". It took me a minute to remember that was the original reason for the bank - to save up and own a bit of land. Sigh.
DeleteI LOVED the ending! Francie goes to college!!! Yes, I think Katie and McShane's marriage will last. I think if Katie makes up her mind to marry him, she'll take it seriously and make it work. And my prediction for Francie is that once she gets to college and broadens her horizons, she'll outgrow Ben. But I don't think he's a bad guy.
ReplyDeleteYou were right all along- Katie is the hero. I also loved that quote from chapter 53, and I love how she dealt with Francie's heartbreak. She might not be warm and cuddly, but she's honest with her kids and that's HUGE. And I love how when Franice got the letter from Lee's (what a jerk) wife, she calls for her mother. It shows what a close-knit family they are, in spite of everything.
Another part I especially loved was when Francie and Neely are talking about how Laurie's life will be so much easier than their's, and they agree that she won't have the fun they had either. I love how they look back on their childhood that way! It reminds me of how my kids will say they feel sorry for me, because when I was little we had no cell phones, no video games, no ipads- but I feel sorry for THEM. They couldn't possibly know how much fun it was to be a kid in the 1970s.
Overall I loved this book- THANK YOU ENGIE!
I just found myself nodding with everything you said in this comment, Jenny. Yes to all of it! I think Francie will outgrow Ben. I think Katie is the stealth heroine of the book. I think Neely and Francie will be better off for their childhood than Laurie will be. (Book idea for a budding novelist: Laurie's story.)
DeleteFirst off, I was surprised to find that Betty Smith had children when she wrote this book because I swear no mother would wake their napping child unless they needed to like flee a burning house! And similarly, no toddler is going to fall asleep in the arms of a stranger. That part of meeting Mr. McShane REALLY stopped me in my tracks because naps are sacred when you have a toddler. Lol.
ReplyDelete1. Yes she can for sure do better than Ben. This book seems sort of autobiographical. At the end of my book, there was more info about Betty Smith told from their daughter's view. It sounds like Betty married a Ben and they eventually divorced. Why would she give that life to sweet Francie?
2. Katie is not looking for the love of her life. She's had that and now she wants companionship. And Mr. McShane will give them a tremendous amount of comfort and security. I mean she gave her sister $200 which is $4,000 adjusted for inflation! I think she respects Mr. McShane and will grow to love him with time.
3. I loved the ending. I did want to smack the librarian. That woman needed to change jobs! I'm sure we'll talk about this next week in the final wrap-up, but the tree is meant to be symbolic a nd represents Francie, correct? Or the Nolans in general?
I think it depends on the child, to be honest. At Labor Day, we were passing around a 15-16 month old who only sees most of us once or twice a year and he was super happy to just be held and was passing in out everyone's arms. Now, there were a couple of my nephews, in particular, who would not have put up with that nonsense from strangers!
DeleteSo, I think Smith left room for us to think Francie will not end up with Ben. She's going to do better, I think! Better than Smith did, that's for sure.
I hate to think of how practical Katie is being with marrying McShane. My husband thinks there's some spark between the two of them, though, because of the way Katie hid her hands from him earlier in the book. Maybe their relationship will be hotter than I am imagining!
You are right about temperament. Neither of my kids was chill, but I'm not chill. Ha. It's been a point of frustration in my family at times as it took awhile for them to even let my mom hold them, and that's more likely to happen if I am not in the room. It was even hard to pass them around as infants outside of the super sleepy early weeks.
DeleteLisa, were you a chill baby? I think that's the interesting question. One of my nephews was exactly like his dad (so he was a tough baby, didn't like to sleep, didn't like to eat, didn't like to be held by anyone), but one of my nephews was just a happy-go-lucky baby/toddler and his parents were decidedly NOT like that as children, so I think it can go either way.
DeleteI was so sad to finally finish the last chapter yesterday. It’s just amazing when you remember that a book was “good” and then you pick it up and you’re blown away.
ReplyDelete1. Eh, Ben is a harmless “starter” boyfriend. I think that once Francie gets to college she’ll have her pick of the boys and they’ll all be interested in her because being from Brooklyn will make her a little more exotic than the standard Michigan girl.
2. I remembered the McShane part of the book completely wrong. For some reason I had it in my head that they got married before the end of the book and that there were a few months of money being easy before Francie went off to school. I also remembered a lot of love between Katie and McShane, and I didn’t really get that on this read. Yes they both admired each other and knew that they would get married after their first spouses died, but the execution definitely lacked passion. I dunno about this marriage…I mean yes I know it will last until one of them dies, but that’s not the first way that I’d describe my marriage.
3. The only thing that was jarring is that there was a “jump” from Francie being heartbroken to “hey it’s been a few months and everything is dandy now” in the next chapter. But yes the final few chapters were amazing.
My prediction is that Francie is absolutely Betty Smith, just without the abusive stepfather and the crappy first marriage (plus the subsequent crappy marriages). I think Katie and McShane do alright and maybe they'll even have a baby. I’m Team Laurie - she won’t be as talented as Francie or have all of the great childhood stories, but she’ll be a pleasant person and have a good life. I say that Neely will do well, but he won’t be at Francie’s level. I don’t think that Sissy and Evy will mooch, but Katie will treat them to things like spa days. Yes the sisters will be tight. No guesses on Flossie.
My next project is to watch the movie soon. All that I remember is that the Katie's role was very prim and repressed, Francie was forgettable, and the actress who played Sissy was awesome - in fact I think the story was slanted a bit more toward her or maybe it's just that I remember her more because she did such a good job with the role. I will put money that it's no where near as good as the book, and we'll see if my other memories are correct, but I need to check it out to complete my ATGIB journey.
I would like to watch the ATGIB movie, but it's not available streaming. I just ordered a DVD copy from the library, so we'll see if it comes in on time for me to talk about it next week! It's also not 100% clear from the description of whether or not it's the 1945 version or not, so fingers crossed!
DeleteI'll let you two watch the movie and report back. The only movie adaptations that I've enjoyed of the books I love were the HP movies. And even then, they required ditching a lot of the mental images I'd had while reading the books over the years. I'll keep my head-movie, thanks. ;)
Delete1. I'm so surprised by your antipathy toward Ben Blake, especially when we have a creep like Lee Rhynor as his foil character. I don't find Ben pompous at all. He's quite ambitious and self-directed, yes. Does he maybe get a bit presumptuous choosing the best college for Francie? Maybe. I suppose you could argue that he's just taking advantage of Francie in a different way, but I still think he's a Good Guy. And I have to say that I think Katie is wrong: I don't think Lee and Francie's night together would have been beautiful, especially after Francie got that letter from the wife. I think she'd see it as tawdry and unfortunate for the rest of her life.
ReplyDelete2. I thought that Smith foreshadowed a bit of a mutual attraction between Katie and McShane each time they were in a chapter together. She hid her hands; she commented upon how his sick wife would hang on, but he deserved better, etc. I don't feel sad about it at all. Both of them will benefit, and I do think there will be a genuine affection between them. Katie can finally let go of so much stress and worry. Her life will be so much better as will his without the concern and care of an ill spouse. He now has a child, and one that he was eager to have. He also has two other stepchildren that respect him and what he's done for their mother. Kindness goes a long way toward genuine affection and love.
3. I loved that Francie went back and insisted that the shopkeeper finally make good on the prize board. She has such a great sense of justice and fairness. She loves the traditions and rituals of the old neighborhood, but just once she wants to tilt the scales back a little bit. Sort of like how her father did that for her by helping her get into the other school.
I wish she'd give herself more credit, however, and realize that her neighborhood isn't entirely what made her who she is. She grew and thrived *in spite of* her neighborhood a great deal of the time. She called upon her inner strength and determination, her desire for More. She could have given up so many times, but she didn't. Like the Tree of Heaven, she got cut off but found a way every time.
(And yes, that librarian! She and Mrs. Garnder are probably friends. Two snots who should not be in a position to work with children at all.)
It was very interesting to think about what Francie's reaction would have been if she'd been intimate with Lee. I can see your perspective that she would have seen it as tawdry and unfortunate, but I can also see her overromanticizing it because that's Francie's way. Either way, I'm glad that's not how it shook out because you're right that Ben is superior to Lee, but that doesn't mean Ben is the answer for Francie.
DeleteThere was a lot of foreshadowing between Katie and McShane, for sure. I just wish there'd been some sort of mention of feelings when Katie was accepting McShane's proposal, but that's not Katie's way.
- 1) Francie can do better than Ben Blake, right? Pompous know-it-all. Grumble, grumble.
ReplyDelete- Oh yes! But she'll be off to college and meet someone interesting.
- 2) Katie's explanation for marrying McShane is that he can support her family and her life isn't complete without a man to love her. No mention of her loving him. (See the above quote from Chapter 54). I'm so sad for Katie AND McShane here. Do you think this is enough to build a solid relationship? Do you think this marriage will last?
- I think so because of who Katie is. She's had the passion of her life but loving is about more than just feelings and I think she is the type of person who will settle down and do the work of loving and I think because McShane isn't expecting to be another Johnnie that is OK.
- 3) Were you satisfied with the ending here? Did you feel like you got enough closure on our main characters? What about our secondary and tertiary characters? Anyone you want to know more about?
- I felt this was a good place to end in. Although I'm hoping that Francie got over her crush on the soldier. Yuck!
I'm pretty confident that Francie is already over the soldier. She's off to school and new adventures and she's going to find an amazing guy. This will have to be the way.
DeleteWell. I have been listening to the chapters and thinking it's time for Francie to get married to that law student and have a baby, but then that didn't happen, so I wondered what book I was thinking of. Google Books to the rescue! I put in 'novel, 20th century, 'I would say "charge it"' + lipstick + Goldie and I got back: Joy in the Morning, ALSO by Betty Smith. I'm having a face-palming moment, but also extremely grateful not to have to keep noodling on what book I was (half) remembering. Sheesh.
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting because I've never read any other Betty Smith books! Maybe I should read them.
DeleteD, now I am wondering if I read that. The title is SO familiar. I'll have to dig up the description and see if I can remember anything...
DeleteThere was something about only seeing "Book wrap-up" on the upcoming schedule that hit me deeply. I'm so sad we're done with this fantastic book and book club! I loved the ending to this book and, like Nicole, I think it's one of the best-written final chapters I've read.
ReplyDelete1) I don't have the same apathy toward Ben Blake as you do, ha. I thought he was such a sweet character to Francie. Is he a bit of a know-it-all? Sure, but I imagine most men in that day and age were a bit like him, and I think they feed off each other quite well. That said, if she goes off to college and finds someone else? I'm also okay with that!
2) I am not all that sad about their relationship - it seems like a very practical one and Katie is a practical woman. She had the great love of her life, and now she has security and stability with McShane. I think they will have a long-lasting marriage that's filled with respect and, perhaps, love in time.
3) I was supremely satisfied with the ending. A part of me would like to know what happened to Francie in college, but I like that it was left open-ended for us to come to our own conclusions.
You're absolutely right that Katie and McShane will have a practical relationship. I guess I just wouldn't want that FOR ME and I'm putting that on her. Melissa raises a good point that Katie already had a great passion in her life with Johnny and that didn't work out amazingly, so there are good reasons for Katie to be with McShane. I just don't think I'd be happy in that type of relationship, but I guess I can see how Katie will be happy.
DeleteYeah, Ben didn't seem like such a prize. He certainly would have been the 'safe & boring' life partner for our Bright Francie.
ReplyDeleteOh, and I didn't think the Military Ranking part of your post was nonsense at all; I loved it. I find this stuff so interesting and I wish I could remember it past reading it. My young cousin Chris was a Captain and I knew it was a special ranking, especially for his age at the time.
I think Katie also took a safe gamble on McShane; seeking security for Laurie and herself. I believe that back in the day, you didn't have as many choices of suitors and he was a sure bet as not everyone was expecting a big 'ole love story. (read: No social media to compare your relationship to!)
I loved the last chapter where Betty pretty much wrapped it all up with a bow. It was a good ending and I'm happy it sent us off with Promise for Francie! I like your Post Book Head Canon; I too expected Neely to be successful, AND have the lightheartedness of Johnny.
I can't remember the military rankings, either. I am flabbergasted by how complex it is (within each of those ranks, there are different "steps" - I really went down the rabbit hole on this one and it's even more complex than I wrote!). And, notice that "Captain" isn't one of those ranks at all!
DeleteI felt like the book kind of lost a bit of momentum after Johnny dies - but maybe that is the "coming of age" part? Teenage years are this weird combination of waiting and going forth and seeking and thinking. Francie wants love and romance and then goes through that whole disappointing bit with Lee which on her way to getting heartbreak out of the way. (And then that's followed quickly by Katie's proposal from McShane, as if that's another detail to get sorted) And then the decisions about what to do about school, and waiting to go, etc. And then she decides to go to University, but the whole decision seems so oddly passive - she goes to Michigan because Ben told her to... It just seems like the last few chapters, are just her getting by and thinking about life until she can take off on her next big adventure.
ReplyDelete1) Ben is sweet, a little undefined, an a bit controlling. And the whole bit about Francie conflating him with her father was just kind of icky to me. It makes me think that she still might have some more heartbreak and growing to come in her relationships with men.
2) Well, my grandparents were married for over 60 years and I'm pretty sure my grandmother married him because of his qualities rather than any grand passion she had for him. So yeah, I do think that as long as people have the right expectations, then they can make things work.
3) I did like how so many threads were revisited in that last chapter - it seemed weird that the last two chapters were called "Book Five" because they seemed a little epilogue-ish - maybe that had something to do with a serial publications? I would definitely take more stories of Sissy and how life with not-John/Steve turns out - but maybe she's not up to anymore fun now that Steve has asserted himself and Sissy has finally found a man who won't take her antics?
I looked up some of the songs that are mentioned when Francie and Lee are out on their date. Funny thing- "Some Sunday Morning", which is mentioned as one of Francie's favorite song, was a little hard to find because there is *another* song with the same title that was quite popular in the 1940s and kept coming up. But when I finally found Francie's version on YouTube, there is a comment that says, "I'm here because of A Tree Grows in Brooklyn."
And I looked up videos of Van and Shenck, who Neely goes to see perform at the end of the novel, and yep, Van does sit sideways to play the piano.
I also looked up "two wheeled sulky" that Laurie rides in. All the pictures are of a simple horse drawn carriage, but it now makes sense when Smith has Francie pulling it rather than pushing it.
I found a recording at work of a musical version of A Tree Grows In Brooklyn, which apparently Smith had a hand to bringing to stage. I was waiting to finish reading the novel to listen to the recording, so I'm looking forward to putting that in the CD player next!
I think you're right in your first paragraph. I mean, I was certainly not a deep thinker when I was a teen. I was mostly focused on how to get out of the small town where I lived and was single-minded about that. I wasn't considering the pros/cons of various schools beyond doing the math about where they were and how much it would cost me. I think Johnny's death and Laurie's birth will be touchstones for Francie throughout her life and she can't really see what her future will look like, so she doesn't think about it that hard.
DeleteOh, I look forward to your report about what the musical version is like. I think I'm going to watch the DVD of the movie this weekend, so maybe we can talk about the various adaptations in the wrap-up post next week!
I agree that Lee (ARGH) was a corporal, and the cop on the bridge called him general either as a joke or as a way of kind of elevating him in front of Francie. I also agree that Francie will never be able to "go back home" to Brooklyn. The gentrification and improvements the city planned post-war would make it a place very unlike that of her youth.
ReplyDelete1) I think Ben provides a handy foil to Lee. Lee, somehow, became Francie's romantic ideal. (Blech.) I think her feelings for Ben are more in the friendship mode (she even says this, in the last chapter). Ben is... Ben's the backup boyfriend. She'll marry Ben if she doesn't find someone who lights her hair on fire. Which brings me to the next question...
2) Potentially unpopular opinion, but yes. I do think this is more than enough for a solid relationship. To me, this has elements of what I'd look for in a relationship (although not looking and don't plan to ever again, thanks). Solid support on both sides. Affection. Wanting the best for the other person. And the ability to coexist. I don't need my hair set on fire, thanks. That rarely leads to good outcomes.
3) I loved the ending. It's poignant. It leaves the door open for us to imagine what will happen in Francie's life. We know she moved into the future - that she had opportunity - and she can do anything with it she wants.
I want to know what happened to Neeley (I'm so worried he'll follow in Johnny's footsteps), and Sissy and her family, and Evy, and well all of them. Can we do a reunion show? ;)
RE: your head canon. I thought McShane's kids were all dead? That's the whole "health" thing?
My thoughts:
* Wow, I hate Lee. Talk about manipulative. Ergh. Gross.
* Ben's the starter boyfriend. See above.
* The best books are the ones that let each of us imagine our own ending. This is one of the most perfect book endings ever, in that regard.
Quote:
Or was it all real and true and was it that she, Francie, was the dreamer?
The last time of anything has the poignancy of death itself. This that I see now, she thought, to see no more this way. Oh, the last time how clearly you see everything; as though a magnifying light had been turned on it. And you grieve because you hadn't held it tighter when you had it every day.
My understanding is that McShane has four children still alive, but this is based on a gossipy scene in Chapter 24, so maybe you think it's wrong.
Delete"...but McShane married here and gave the child his name to kind of repay the family. It wasn't a love marriage, exactly, but he's been very good to her, I hear."
"Did they have children together?"
"Fourteen, I heard."
"Fourteen!"
"But he only raised four. Seemed like they all died before they grew up. They were all born with consumption, you know, inherited from their mother who had it from a girl."
Honestly, this makes me ever sadder for McShane because this is his second marriage without true passion. I know you don't agree with me on this, Anne, but I think a marriage needs both practical compatibility (agreeing on big things like finances and religion) and some degree of passion.
Ah. I read the "they all died" as "all 14 died, and only 4 lived past birth". Could go either way, I think. And I guess I'm just not a passionate person? Not to get too into the weeds, but... I never have been. And I have no idea why. My parents and brother have wonderful relationships. Me, well, they're just not a priority (as in, romantic relationships). Makes me wonder about myself, sometimes. I don't think I'm anywhere close to typical...
DeleteOooooohhhhh. I read it as four lived, but you're right, it's possible they also died, but just not directly at birth. Look at English being so ambiguous.
DeleteI don't think everyone is passionate or has to be. It just strikes me that in this case Katie IS a passionate person (we know this because of her history with Johnny) and it seems like McShane is interested in love. I don't know. Maybe I'm just taking Katie's tone of resignation to McShane's proposal a little too personally.
OK, this is what I am loving about this book club thing. Reading everyone else's perspectives really makes me take a step back to question/confirm what my own perspective is. Anyway! English, ambiguous? Never! (HAAAA)
DeleteAnd...from my perspective, the very fact that Katie had a super-passionate relationship with Johnny is the *reason* why she doesn't want/need another one. She's had the One Great Love of her life, who turned out to be Not A Great Provider. Now, she'll have a Solid Relationship with someone who is (I suspect) a Really Good Provider. Does that make sense? She's had it, doesn't need it again (and maybe doesn't want it, since she may not want to compare Johnny to McShane?).
My husband thinks you're 100% right and they all died, just some not right at birth. So, there's another data point for you!
DeleteI forgot to check in because I read a bit ahead of time...
ReplyDeleteso just a quick note. on the questions
I) I think it is the responsible choice. She can’t do much wrong with Ben. He is the vanilla ice cream I guess.
2) I guess same as above. It is theresponible thing do.Orwhatis expected. And they keep each other company. Which might be better than feeling lonely.
3) It wasn’t the big finale Guess. But then what else was there. Francie moves away and leaves town and with that the book can’t go on. I was fine with the end. It fitted the book. I liked the walk down memory lane aka the neighborhood towards the end. That tied up ends for me.