Welcome to our book club for A Tree Grows in Brooklyn. Today we'll be discussing Chapters 46-51. Let's dive in! Next week we'll finish the book!
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Synopsis: Another year, but it's different for the Nolans. Lots of their daily routines are different, like they aren't taking piano lessons or reading The Bible or Shakespeare every day. Francie's lonely. Sissy's being Sissy (I KNEW she was pregnant). World War I begins, but I suppose they called it the Great War back then. The clipping bureau closes, but Francie gets a new job. Francie skips high school and signs up for college classes. Sissy has the baby at a hospital and he lives!
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Things I looked up:
Sarah Bernhardt (page 409) - French stage actress who starred in some of the more popular French plays of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. In a 1906 performance in Rio de Janeiro, she leaped as part of her role and the mattress on which she was supposed to land had been positioned incorrectly and she landed on her right knee, which had already been damaged in earlier tours. Despite the injury to her leg, she continued to go on tour every summer. In 1915 (almost 10 years later!!), a physician discovered gangrene had developed on her leg and amputated her leg almost to the hip. She died in 1923.
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| Bernhardt in 1880 Napoleon Sarony, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons |
Wisconsin divorce (page 414) - At first I chuckled when Sissy's first husband said he obtained a Wisconsin divorce, but then I realized there was probably something more to it than just picking a random state. Sometimes I forget, in the current political climate of this state, that Wisconsin was once a progressive place. When Wisconsin became a state in 1848, its divorce laws were liberal for the times (much stricter than they are today, but...). In 1866, Wisconsin passed a law that allowed divorce after a voluntary separation of five years, which basically created one of the first no-fault divorce laws in the nation.
Poet who lived in Brooklyn (page 420) - You GUYS. I knew this poet was Walt Whitman because I just read Leaves of Grass. What are the odds?
A.B. degree (page 432) - This is the equivalent of a B.A. (Bachelor of Arts) degree. It comes from the Latin baccalaureus artium or artium baccalaureus.
Winesap, Baldwin, North Spy apples (page 433) - Winesaps are sweet with a tangy finish. It's hardiness zones are 5 through 8. Baldwins are aromatic with a spicy, sweet-tart flavor and it holds its shape when cooked. For many years it was the Northeast's most popular apple, more widely grown in the US than any other variety. North Spy apples have a strong, sweet flavor and are crisp. (I feel like apple people need to do better at describing them. Are there non-crisp apples?) North Spy apples originated at a farm in New York (or Connecticut - the literal first two Google results say different things - lol - I'm unwilling to research this more) and their hardiness zones are 4 through 9.
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| Winesap apples. They look like apples to me! |
Liberty cabbage (page 444) - I guess I thought this was made up, but no, during World War I, American sauerkraut makers relabeled their product as "liberty cabbage" for the duration of the war. Oh, boy. Remember freedom fries? I tried to find an example of one of these labels on the old Google, but I couldn't find one. I'm wondering if this was a situation where people said they were going to do something, but they didn't. Hm. Still a bit of a question mark for me.
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Select quotes (I'm limiting myself to no more than one a chapter!):
Chapter 46:
Oof. I don't often do this, but I'm going to point out some bad, lazy writing from Smith.
It was a frosty night without a wind. All was still. (page 400)
THREE PAGES LATER.
The night was heady and frosty. There was no wind and the air was cold and still. (page 403)
I did not care for this.
Chapter 47:
"Not yet. But any day now."
"Well, I wish it would hurry up and start."
"Do you want war?"
"No, I don't. But if it has to be, the sooner the better. The sooner it starts, the quicker it will end." (page 410)
Chapter 48:
"Well...good-bye college. Good-bye everything for that matter." (page 425)
This made me laugh so hard. Francie has historically been stoic, but she's such a whiner in these chapters. Save me from teenage angst.
(I'm breaking my own rule and adding another quote from this chapter.)
She pressed the bell button three times before she entered the hallway so that Mama could be on the alert and make sure that Francie wouldn't be attacked by someone lurking in the hallways. (page 426)
Oh, an unpleasant reminder of Francie getting accosted in the hall.
Chapter 49:
She was puzzled as to why learned people didn't adopt chemistry as a religion. (page 431)
LOL.
Chapter 50:
For the first time she heard the cry of a child she had borne. (page 440)
Good for Sissy. It really was a triumphant moment for her.
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Mentions of the word hat (I can't help myself):
He took his hat from a nail behind the door and jammed it on his head. (page 413)
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Questions for you:
1) I found the back and forth between the Irish and the Germans on New Year's Eve sort of disturbing. In light of the rise of hate crimes against Asian Americans during COVID, I feel like the Nolans laughing about it hit me the wrong way. Did you have this reaction or am I overreacting?
2) When Francie learns that war has been declared, she does a whole ritual of trying to remember everything about where she is and what's she doing when she learns the news. Has there ever been an event in your life where you did this? Do you remember everything?
3) There's a very confusing scene in the clipping bureau where two guys come in and then there's an envelope and then Francie says they caught a German spy. What? What is happening in this scene? Someone explain it to me like I'm ten. (Chapter 48)
4) Francie thinks she can just go to college because she doesn't need high school. What do you think about that?
Betty Smith actually kind of did do that, to be honest. She only completed two years of high school and she enrolled at the University of Michigan as a "special student" without matriculating from high school. She took classes at Michigan and Yale, although she never earned a degree despite having enough credits because she never graduated from high school.
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Were there any quotations or lines that particularly stood out to you? Did you have to look anything up?
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Upcoming schedule:
September 18 (entire book wrap up)
I WAS GOING TO SAY REMEMBER FREEDOM FRIES! I have so much to say.
ReplyDeleteI found this whole section quite moving and relevant and also hilarious in some ways. Let's just start with the hilarious, when Katie thinks Sissy is in the change of life, and she replies that she doesn't want to be half a woman, fat, with chin hair. For some reason, this cracked me up. Maybe it's because of all the chin hairs I'm constantly plucking. Sissy, it's okay! Embrace the Bearded Lady Season Of Life! I loved the part with Steve, and I loved that he was okay with having a baby that wasn't biologically his, as long as it biologically wasn't Sissy's either. I loved that whole part. I also loved how Sissy had a baby and it lived thanks to the miracle that is medicine. It was great that the baby was named after the doctor. My mom was named after the RCMP officer and his wife whose home she was born at, as my grandma couldn't make it to the hospital; this was in rural SK.
I found the part about the New Year's drinks very moving and very relevant. It really spoke to me as a mom of older kids; that Kalil Gibran quote about your children not being your children is really relevant here. Sometimes you just have to step back and cede control of the situation and hope that your children are ready to make their own choices, and hope that those choices are good ones. You have to let your children make mistakes and step out of YOUR comfort zone. In terms of drinking, I've always been pretty casual about it with my kids. I've never made a big deal about it, if they want a drink they can have a drink, and so far, not making a big deal about it has paid off. This is not to say that they are angels, but they are responsible, and as long as no one drives drunk and as long as they are respectful to women and other people, then have at it, is my opinion. I really felt Katie's hesitation and worry, it is SUCH a relatable thing. A casual drink or two, cool, but I could really see her not wanting them to turn out like Johnny. And I have felt that way myself, that I didn't want them to see drinking as forbidden and glamourous, but I also didn't want them to become drunks. And so far so good. My late FIL was an extremely heavy drinker and I think that is why my husband rarely drinks. Our family-of-origin life really affects our whole lives.
Agree about the drinks on NYE being quite poignant. It must have been difficult for Katie, but I can see her having the same philosophy about it as she did the war: The sooner it starts, the sooner it's over. She's better off knowing now so that she can deal with it immediately.
DeleteThere is a history of alcoholism in both my husband's family and my own although not in this generation. We made sure our sons knew about it, but we also knew our own role modeling was the most important information we could give them. Yet, at some point, as you pointed out, they're out in the world making their own choices. We aren't the only influences they have. We have to let them be the people they are and live their lives. (SO HARD SOMETIMES.)
I could definitely feel Katie's palpable worry about the kids drinking, given Johnny's alcoholism. But I like the way she dealt with it.
DeleteNow, in terms of your actual questions:
ReplyDelete1) I found that scene very uncomfortable too, especially during wartime (I know America was not involved in the war at that point but it was very much going on)
2) I did that exact thing in 1990 when the Gulf War began, and then again on 9/11.
3) I just assumed the spy was using the clippings to check on people in high places and get information on people who were in government. Without the internet, I guess you'd have to get your info somewhere.
4) I do think that was definitely something that happened back then, I don't think getting into college was so stringent perhaps.
ALSO I did not know Sarah Bernhardt had gangrene. Poor thing.
ReplyDeleteThe chemistry-religion thing also made me chuckle. Such a good questions when you look at it objectively.
ReplyDelete1) I think the whole book is deeply ingrained with prejudices and antisemitism. Basically every ethnicity is being in bullseye one of those times. Except maybetheIrish? I feel it is more soft on them– probably because Johnny was Irish. But yes it did rub me the wrong way and it is not the first time. While I personally not like it and am glad that literature today Lismore aware and screen regarding such things I also believe that books are a mirror of the times. I have raised that issue on my blog. I am struggling with books I love that are using language that is not appropriate today. I am not sure if those books should be rewritten – but at the same time it is a challenge presenting the to kids. One example Pippi Longstocking. Sowhat do we do? Not read them anymore? Only read with guidance? If you take that further you would have to remove books where woman are just there to serve man. Is there anything left then? It’s something I keep thinking about and not find any satisfying solution.
2) Interesting question. I think no. While there are certain situations ingrained in my memory and I could give detailed chronological description those were not consciously memorized. So I guess not. Well, now thinking more about it I guess when I was sitting at my grandpas deathbed. I mindfully sat there taking it all in knowing it will be the last time. I even told him how these was rising, what happened around us… Maybe that would be the closest to what Francie did.
3) I was a bit confused about that too. Maybe back in the day information took much longer to reach people. When getting such a clipping from a bureau that had access to all those newspapers information could be forwarded much more quickly? And then to the enemy? That is what I was thinking. Not sure though what secrets you could find in public newspapers though…
4) Not sure how I feel about it. I sometimes wish you could just take a test to prove you have required knowledge to enter any sort of educational institution. On the other hand it needs some sort of order…So not sure how I feel about it.
I have no idea what freedom fries are.. I guess I will need to google that.
Also I am wondering if that is something specific to America. Because I can not remember that we changed any sort of food when another country was on the wrong side.
I can’t remember if I had any quotations. I don’t think so.
You bring up a great point about books being a reflection of their times and how that makes them, in some cases, repositories of inappropriate terms and ideas for today. Even beloved children's books (you mentioned Pippi Longstocking, which I loved as a young reader) from times past contain things that you might not want your present-day kids to hear/read, at least without some commentary from you. One of my favourite children's stories of all time is "Bedtime for Frances" by Russell Hoban. But when I went to buy it as a gift for a little girl, I was met with some cautionary reviews on Amazon, warning that there was mention of spanking in it. I didn't remember that! But it did make me change my mind, knowing that the girl's mother was very sensitive about such things, even in a storybook.
DeleteI really love the point you made in your first answer because it's something I have struggled with a lot myself. When is it just a sign of the times and a good reminder of what was acceptable then and isn't now, and when do we need to look critically at a text and decide if it needs to go through a reprinting. That's not a decision I want to be making myself!
DeleteI think your first point is very important. I mean, I think it's great that Smith wrote about these incidents of racism/religious intolerance/anti-Semitism that were just part of life in Brooklyn during WWI. I definitely don't think it should ever be rewritten! It's just when I compare it to today and don't see much progress that it gets uncomfortable.
DeleteFreedom fries. After the September 11 attacks in 2001, the US invaded Iraq (for what later turned out to be BS reasons, but at the time many Americans thought was necessary). The French Minister of Foreign Affairs told the US that France would not support the invasion. They changed the name of "French fries" to "freedom fries" in the Congressional cafeteria (and I'm sure other restaurants) as a way to retaliate against the French. Because the war in Iraq was unpopular, this renaming did not last long. Freedom fries is sort of a joke in the US now.
Thank you for explaining the term "Freedom Fries" . I ad heard it but couldnt quiet grasp it.
DeleteI also agree that books should not be rewritten. But if someone reads tem withouth historicalcontext it might be an issue. And especially with kids they just dont have the knowledge yet. Soits a tough one
Ah, it turns out I DO remember something from this book, but I thought it was from Maggie Now (also by Betty Smith, which I read around the same time as ATGIB.) The scene where Francie finds out war has been declared and goes through the ritual or fixing everything in her memory. That's the only part of this book that I remember (although like I said, I was getting it mixed up with another book.) I loved this part, and I must have especially loved it 40 years (or so) ago when I first read it. That, and the subsequent section where she prays that she'll always be "something"- happy sad, hungry, satisfied, etc. is her wanting to be present and experience her life fully instead of letting it pass her by. And I love the part where she and Neely are on the roof and he says " Brooklyn is no different from any other place. It's only your imagination that makes it different." It's true! Francie has so much potential, and she wants such a big life. Now that we're almost at the end of the book, my heart is sinking more and more for her. She's determined to pull herself out of a poverty-stricken, dead end life, and I think she could do it- but the war is going to make a difficult situation even worse.
ReplyDeleteSissy had a baby!!!! Hooray! I wonder if her other babies could have lived if she had just had proper medical care. But I'm glad for how this story worked out, at least. I liked the scene with "Steve," and how he grew to love the adopted baby. But are we supposed to think he's the actual father? Is that what Sissy and Katie were getting at?
I understand Francie's decision not to go to high school. She's been living an adult life for the past year, and high school would be boring for her. It also sounds like she's realized her teachers in the past have failed her. Going straight to college is a good decision. It would be like kids now who take the GED instead of finishing high school, and I'm sure Francie can pass her test (once again- if circumstances don't intervene to make it impossible.)
There was a passage where they were going out and Katie grabbed her "green hat"- I thought of you!!! I tried to look back but I can't find where it was exactly.
The scene with the clipping agency wasn't clear, but I guess their biggest client was supposedly a German spy? This chapter did make it clear exactly what this company did (which I didn't understand last time, until you explained it to me.)
I'm torn now- I want to see what happens but I don't want this book to end! I want to keep following Francie's life forever.
I was thinking the same thing about Sissy and the babies. Could tthey all have lived?
DeleteAlso I. didn't get the Steve reference. It seemed like they said that Steve was the real father of little Sissy and that is the only reason he didn't raise a fuzz when Sissy walked in with the baby. But I don't get it really.
I didn't recall that part of the book when I read it before, either. I think they're implying that there's circumstantial evidence that Steve could very well be the father of little Sissy. Whether or not they're saying it simply to erase Sissy's fiction, I don't know. I do think it's terribly sad that Sissy's other children likely could have lived had the midwives or sisters known CPR or any way to get oxygen to the babies. Sissy wouldn't have gone on to have so many pregnancies, certainly, trying so hard and in vain.
DeleteOh gosh, I must have read right over the part of the chapter that implied Steve IS little Sissy's real father. Wild! But I also wondered how many other of Sissy's babies would have survived if she had gone to the hospital instead of having the babies at home. So sad to think about!
DeleteHonestly, based on the rapid recovery of little Stevie (:>) after the simple use of oxygen, I suspect most of them could have survived. I also suspect that there were many similar situations in many families before hospital births became more common. I haven't done a full study of the history of neonatal care, but it would be kind of fascinating to do so.
DeleteI reread that scene with Sissy and Katie and I do think they're suggesting he's the father! Now I am totally verklempt. I was all mad at Sissy for lying to him about how Little Sissy came to be and now I don't know what to think! Wouldn't Sissy be more upset if he cheated on her? My feelings are too complicated for this!
DeleteCount me in on the others who think Sissy's other babies probably would have stood a chance of living if they'd been born in a hospital or even a more competent midwife (no shade at the midwife, but she seems...not ideal). Poor Sissy. So much unnecessary pain.
YEA SISSY!!! There are a few parts of the book that I remembered vividly, and the miracle of the hospital birth was one of them. I also remembered Francie making her remembrance envelope right after war was declared.
ReplyDeleteThe "Wisconsin divorce" went right over my head...I got that he got a divorce and that he lived in WI, but I didn't put the two together. I'm so used to hearing "she went to Reno" as a euphemism for divorce at the time. I'm sure there was more to it, but if you lived in Reno NV for six weeks you were considered to be a resident and had an easy path to divorce. I guess living in WI and being separated for 5 years was "the poor man's Reno".
1. Germans had it very rough in WWI. The disturbing part is that times haven't changed, as you point out with how Asians were treated during COVID.
2. This will seem very random, but the World Event that I remember every last detail of was when JFK Jr's body was found after the plane accident. I was traveling for work and a woman burst into the room where I was working and yelled "they found JFK!". I told her that I would always remember her and 24 years later I do.
3. Yes we need more info!!! What a tease!
4. I agree with Francie. There is a difference between showing up at school and learning. She's figuring out the learning part and how to get back on track after not being able to start high school.
I dug into the Reno v. Wisconsin divorce laws. I think, if I'm not mistaken, that residency requirements for Reno in the 1910s was six months and you had to have grounds for divorce (apparently there were seven possibilities, including desertion for over a year). It wasn't until the late 1920s that the residency requirements went to three months. Wisconsin had a much longer residency requirement, but I can understand why Sissy's husband went there instead (much cheaper, no-fault). Fascinating stuff.
DeletePoor Francie! So disappointed so many times. And so lonely, with a companion so close and yet so far. If anyone deserves to feel angst, it's her.
ReplyDeleteI love her continued awe at learning and at the intricacies of the world, like Chemistry. Science really is more astonishing in its truth than any religion.
1. I understood the back and forth between the two ethnic groups. I grew up in an international city full of many different nationalities, settled mainly by DPs (displaced persons, or what we used to jokingly call delayed pilgrims). Growing up, it wasn't uncommon for us to hear people say things like, "Well, he's a typical Hunky man, always thinks he's right" (Hungarian) or "You can see the Polack in her, just look at her wide face (Polish)" and "She's Serbian, so of course she thinks she's better than everyone else." As the generations went on, it became less entrenched, but when there was an influx of Puerto Ricans and Mexicans, those two groups had their own back and forth between each other. It wasn't open cruelty; it was just accepted conventional wisdom about each nationality's proclivities mixed in with a little pride of one's own heritage. In the book, adding the antagonism of war, I understood. I think it was a little private nationalism.
2. I never went through rituals like Francie, but I remember so much about the Challenger disaster and, of course, September 11th. Both happened when I was at school, teaching. I was stuck on a plane when the US bombed Afghanistan and we couldn't get off because someone breached security at the airport. And I still remember watching TV with my father--the caissons rolling, carrying the body of President Kennedy. I was not yet five years old.
3. Apparently, the G-men came in, presented a warrant, waited in the bathroom until the spy showed up for his clippings and arrested him. He was apparently a client, perhaps gathering intelligence from the papers. That's what I got from it.
4. Well, you can take the GED test without going to high school, so...
Francie has read 200 newspapers a day, so she's pretty well-versed in quite a few topics. She doesn't, however, know math or sciences past grade school. I can make a pretty strenuous argument for not ever having used algebra or geometry or chemistry in my life past high school (or in my Real Life, period). Trivia contests do not count. I've used very little of my French, lots of my biology.
Are we really not going to talk about Ben Blake?
Who is Ben Blake? When was that character mentioned?
DeleteAt first I thought Nance read ahead, like I did, but Ben shows up in chapter 48! So much fun to see Francie moony and in love. :)
DeleteBen is the reason I was looking up the apples. I was trying to figure out where he was from by triangulating the apples in the line "the object of his ambitions, a vast midwestern state, lay dreaming beneath the hot prairie sun - lay dreaming among its great wheat fields and its unending orchards of Winesap, Baldwin and Northern Spy apples" (chapter 49). *shrug* I don't think he's an interesting character. LOL.
DeleteI still don't completely understand the spy scene. I really need someone to break it down for me line by line.
The two slow-moving men were g-men? What did they show the boss that made the boss turn pale? A search warrant? A subpoena? I think I understand the rest of the scene after that at this point.
1) I totally had the same reaction. And the idea of trying to "drown out" the others made me think of people whose voices are silenced in "favor" of others. It made me think of underrepresented groups that have always had a hard time being heard, and how much harder it is for some (most?) of them in today's climate. Sigh. This passage showed that this is, in no way, a new phenomenon. That does not mean that I have to like it.
ReplyDelete2) I thought about this, too, when reading this passage. I remember very few things in vivid detail, but I find that if I focus on a memory, more and more of the details will come back to me. Does that make sense? And, there are some, well, disturbing gaps in my memory. I can hardly remember my courses during my doctoral program. And yet, I remember doing the readings, working on my computer, my RA positions. Why can't I remember class time??? It was central to who I am now but doesn't stand out in my memory. Which makes me sad, to be honest.
3) (Did you ask ChatGPT? Sorry, couldn't resist...) The two big guys were clearly feds. Gov't thugs. Like others, I imagine the spy was collecting information from US newspapers that could have been helpful to the Germans. And when war was declared, it was time for him to get the info and get the heck out. I suspect they had eyeballs on him for a while, perhaps due to other activities? and then found out he'd be at this one place at this one time.
4) Isn't this technically what people who get a GED are doing? You could use a GED to get into a community college, then transfer. I think this was more common in the past - e.g., when this book was set. A quick google does show that several online schools accept peopel with GEDs and other non-traditional educational backgrounds.
Things that stood out to me:
Sissy's choice of a hospital (the gall!) and having a Jewish doctor. I love that her choices were validated by her child surviving. Ten to one her sisters never said that she'd made the right choice, though.
I will say, I was shocked to read heinie being used as a slur against the Germans. My parents always used it to refer to our rear ends; according to most online dictionaries, that's the definition. But dictionary.com goes against the trend and says it's a slur against Germans (old usage) and that it dates to... WWI. Interesting.
I was also surprised to read that Francie saw Sarah Berndhardt playing a male role in a play. Apparently, Bernhardt was known for this. I (obviously) was completely unaware of this. I found it pretty intriguing - particularly in light of the "drag queen wars" that are going on now in the US.
Francie's realization that she is going to college when her grandparents were, essentially, illiterate, really resonated with me. My family's story isn't quite as dramatic, but there is a similar arc of increasing education over generations. My parents' grandparents didn't go to high school. My grandparents didn't go to college. My parents went to college - but only some of my aunts and uncles. My generation? We all went to college. Most of us have at least one graduate degree. It's astonishing how things can change in the blink of a generational eye.
Quotes
Francie stood on tiptoe and stretched her arms wide. "Oh, I want to hold it all!" she cried. "I want to hold the way the night is - cold without wind. And the way the stars are so near and shiny. I want to hold all of it tight until it hollers out, 'Let me go! Let me go!'"
"Don't stand so near the edge," said Neeley, uneasily. "You might fall off the roof."
I LOL'd at this one. The juxtaposition between sometimes-fanciful Francie and her pragmatic brother.
"But she didn't want to recall things. She wanted to live things - or, as a compromise, re-live rather than reminisce."
Heinie was how my parents referred to rear ends, too! I never knew it was a slur - eeks.
DeleteMe three on heinie as a reference to rear ends!
DeleteAnne, you will love this story. My cousin J is a relatively carefree lady. My husband is very reserved and careful. At my sister's wedding, we went up to the roof of the event space and my cousin was nervous about the heights and my husband was walking along the edge pretending it was a balance beam. My uncle remarked that everything and everyone was behaving all topsy turvy on the roof. Maybe roofs do crazy things to us!
I was so happy for Sissy and like others had to wonder - would all her babies have lived if they had been born in a hospital. I was happy...but then also sad to think that she may have gone through so much pain and loss because of a lack of adequate infant care.
ReplyDeleteI was also really uncomfortable with the racial slurs!
I was SO proud of how Katie handled alcohol. I found that to be such a great scene. I boarded with an old lady in university who LOVED to drink everyday. She said she always let her kids drink and tried not to stigmatize it she just had two rules: never mix drinks and sip slowly so you always have a drink in your hand. She also told her kids they could fill their cup with water and sip that if they needed a break from the liquor. She was sooo ahead of her time.
Quotes: "Neeley, if you had to die, wouldn't it be wonderful to die now - while you believed that everything was perfect, the way this night is perfect." I have felt this exact way in an amazing moment. Like I wish I could go now and never have to see bad things happen again. I really related to that line.
I laughed when they shook hands to ring the New Years in - haha! This sounds like something my father (not overly affectionate and HATES hugs) would do.
"Whether you like it or not, you'll get to be twenty-five in time no matter what you do. You might as well be getting educated while you're going towards it." How true! The best time to plant a tree was 25 years ago, the next best time in now. Might as well stop lamenting the passage of time and just do the thing,
I'm totally cool with the thought of someone skipping high school if they're able to do college courses. I feel like Francie knew a lot of real world stuff and kudos to her! I was so proud of her <3
I really loved the scene of Katie and letting her kids drink alcohol. I could feel her palpable worry, but I was proud of her for not letting that stop her from letting her kids try it. And just the way Francie thinks every time she has overly happy and joyous, she's drunk made me smile!
DeleteI am not cool with people skipping high school and going on to higher ed, actually. Francie's education is not well-rounded. However, according to my brief google search, the GED wasn't around until after WWII, so that wasn't an option. I'm not sure why she didn't take more seriously the entrance or regents' examinations that were mentioned at the end of chapter 49, though. Ugh. I have thoughts about this, I guess.
DeleteI was SO stinking happy for Sissy. Finally! The part about her going to the hospital AND having a Jewish doctor made me giggle; the times are changing. Later on, she got a College Prepaid insurance plan--she is a woman of the world. ;)
ReplyDeleteDo you think that if she had her other babies IN a hospital, they might have survived? This crossed my mind.
I grew up hearing about people and they're ethnicity was generally mentioned. Not in a bad way, but in a way of describing people who were different, so none of that really bothers me. It never made me not like someone because they were different. So, the NYE of them hollering at each other seemed kind of innocent and just neighbors jabbing at each other.
Thank you for 'looking up' so many things, that always helps me too!
I loved that Francie was feeling so good about her job, even if she lost that one, she bounced right back and got another one quickly. She doesn't have time for 'woe is me' she's got to keep going.
I think, for me the biggest moment where I will always remember where I was, what I was doing and how I felt was on 9/11. That is the war of our generation.
I too, wasn't sure about the German Spy part.
I find that German spy part to be utterly befuddling. I must have read it a dozen times before I gave up and just asked all of you!
DeleteI'm so sad we're nearing the end of the book (and book club)! What are we reading next, Engie??? ;)
ReplyDeleteI loved this set of chapters: Sissy finally having a healthy baby (like others have pondered, how many other babies might have survived if she had gone to a hospital?!), Francie taking college courses and falling in LURVE (so adorable!), and all of the interesting ways this set of chapters talked about the passage of time, especially the way Katie/Francie pondered it.
1) Not overreacting! It was a little too much for me as well, but it seems like very "normal" (not in a good way, mind you!) for the time.
2) I remember when my grandma was dying in the hospital, I was trying to remember everything I could about that time in my life. I would go out for lunch every day with all of my uncles/aunts/cousins and wanted to soak it all in: all of us being together and trying to crack jokes during a very heartbreaking time. I tried to remember the way my grandma's hand felt in mine and memorize what her hands and her face looked like. <3
3) I cannot because my eyes glazed over a bit during that section, lol. Other people have explained it way more eloquently than me!
4) I think she's right! What would she learn in high school that she really HASN'T learned through books and real-life application? But I love that she still yearns for education and schooling, so she does WANT to be in school, but doesn't want to "backtrack" in a way to go to high school. It makes sense to me that she just wants to fast forward and go to college. She's been living her life older than her true age, anyway, with her job.
I don't know what we're going to do next, Stephany! Maybe next summer we'll read a different Betty Smith book!
DeleteI would argue that what Francie would learn in high school that she hasn't already learned is how to do stuff she doesn't like to do. LOL. I think she needs math and science foundations that she doesn't have. I have a whole soapbox about this, but in general, you learn how to learn in high school and how to do hard things. Francie's good at what she's good at, but it even says that Francie's spelling and grammar aren't great - she could stand some foundations in the very thing she loves doing. There's a reason for prerequisites in the world!
Or maybe we could read another classic? I have never managed a Hemingway (besides the old man and the see) or we could do Steinbeck? I am sure there are a million more. Or some international one. Anyway I am down for another book club. But then NGS but so much more effort in so its is easily said for me.
DeleteI think I'll ask about what we should read next in the overall wrap up of the book. Or maybe people aren't interested in doing it again! I don't know. I'll ask!
Delete1. That interaction was not too surprising to me and seemed "over the times." So I don't condone that kind of behavior, but it doesn't surprise me. There was so much prejudice during that time between the different immigrant populations. When I was in high school, my local newspaper would do a Q&A of local residents. Once time my dad was interviewed and they asked him about something his mom said or advice she gave him or something like that - and his answer was "don't marry a Catholic." !!!! Except, he did marry a Catholic and converted to Catholicism when they had kids.
ReplyDelete2. For me, it's 9/11. I knew it was going to be a lifechanging kind of event. My parents were in HS when JFK was assassinated and my mom always told us about her vivid memories of finding out he was killed. I knew that I, too, would have vivid memories from the day of 9/11.
3. I have no idea! I must have glossed over it as well.
4. I wanted her to be able to go to college. It seemed unlikely that she could go to HS and continue to work and help support her family, but college has more flexibility. I can see the benefit of HS, but I feel like she learned a lot from her newspaper clipping reading and was forced to grow up so fast that HS felt a bit less necessary.
My grandmother-in-law (she's 101!) still insists that discrimination against Catholics is rampant. I don't see it in my life, but maybe? It's interesting how that kind of thing changes generation to generation and to think about who the scapegoats of society are today.
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