Welcome to our book club for A Tree Grows in Brooklyn. Today we'll be discussing Chapters 42-45. Let's dive in!
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Synopsis:
Francie and Neely graduate and Johnny had arranged with Sissy for Francie to get flowers. Francie gets a factory job and Neely gets work as an errand boy and they are proud to give Katie money from their first paychecks. Francie gets laid off from the factory and starts working at a job where she clips newspaper articles. She wants to go back to school, but Katie wants Francie to keep working and Neely to go to school "Because if I don't make him, he'll never go back, where you, Francie, will fight and manage to get back somehow." (page 385) This is a rift that will never heal between Katie and Francie, I fear. But since Francie and Katie are both working, they have a lovely Christmas with presents for everyone and they go to church where they say a mass in Johnny's honor.
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Things I looked up:
Gethsemane (page 350): I always miss religious references. Gethsemane is a garden at the foot of the Mount of the Olives in Jerusalem where, according to the New Testament, Jesus Christ underwent the agony in the garden and was arrested before his crucifixion. Feel free to correct me, but I guess Jesus knew he would be betrayed and was filled with anguish over the coming torture he was going to experience, but he prays and accepts God's will. (As a non-Christian, this is DARK.)
Automat (page 368): Look, I knew what the automat was already, but I wanted to use this time to point you to the very delightful 99% Invisible podcast episode called "The Automat" for more details on it.
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| More cool photos here. |
spats (page 392): Spats, a shortening of spatterdashes, or spatter guards, are a type of footwear accessory for outdoor wear, covering the instep and the ankle. Spats are distinct from gaiters, which are garments worn over the lower trouser leg as well as the shoe.
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| All you ever wanted to know about spats here. |
chasuble (page 397): a sleeveless outer vestment worn by a Catholic or High Anglican priest when celebrating Mass, typically ornate and having a simple hole for the head
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Select quotes (I'm limiting myself to no more than one a chapter!):
Chapter 42:
"They're nice," Francie thought. "I could have been friends with them all the time. I thought they didn't want to be friends. It must have been me that was wrong." (page 352-353)
Oh, Francie. You're missing out if female friendships aren't part of your life.
Chapter 43:
"That was a long time ago."
"Yeah," agreed Francie. It was, in fact, two weeks since they had dragged their last haul to Carney's. (page 370)
Chapter 44:
"What's the matter with me, anyhow? Here I stand criticizing Sissy - Sissy who's been so darn good to me. I'm dissatisfied with my job when I should feel lucky having such interesting work. Imagine getting paid to read when I like to read so much anyhow. And everyone thinks New York is the most wonderful city in the world and I can't even get to like New York. Seems like I'm the most dissatisfied person in the whole world. Oh, I wish I was young again when everything seemed so wonderful!" (page 381)
To come to Francie's defense here, NYC is pretty gross. LOL. (Sorry, sorry, New Yorkers. Your fine city is wonderful for many things. It also smells like trash.)
Chapter 45:
Several times that day, the name or thought of Papa had come up. And each time, Francie had felt a flash of tenderness instead of the old stab of pain. (page 393)
I do like how this book deals with grief. It's not a linear process.
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Mentions of the word hat (I can't help myself):
"I'm putting my hat on," Katie said. (page 355)
Chockful in Chapter 45 because they buy Katie a new hat for Christmas.
First they want to buy Mama a new hat. (page 389) - Did everyone notice that Katie gets a new green hat? So many green hats for Katie!
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Questions for you:
1) When Francie sees Johnny's handwriting on the card with the flowers, she thinks for a second that it was all a dream and Johnny was alive. We have a couple of recipes my late MIL wrote out and those recipes bring us great joy. This is a two part question. In this day and age when we type things on computers, I see less and less handwriting. Do you think they'll come a day when we stop teaching children to handwrite, like how some kids don't learn cursive? As always, feel free to not answer, but do you have anything handwritten that is super special to you?
2) Go with me on a journey of imagination. What was Francie's date with Albie like? What did they do? How did it go?
3) Katie! She has Neely go to school instead of Francie. What do you think of her reasoning? What would have done in her shoes? (Also, why so many green hats, Katie? Why?)
4) Neely asks for spats and Francie for fancy lingerie. Discuss.
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More book-related ephemera:
Friends, we have a stealth book club participant. D in Texas wrote to me the following email:
My mother recently passed way (at 96!) and as my siblings and I started clearing the house, I came across this yellowed, torn, and ancient clipping. Apparently ATGIB was printed in the paper as a serial, in this case, the Chicago Herald-American. The second photo has the date, February 28, 1944.
I had no idea it was printed as a serial! And there are pictures!
That is so cool, D in Texas! Thanks for sharing this wonderful find with us.
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Were there any quotations or lines that particularly stood out to you? Did you have to look anything up?
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Upcoming schedule:
September 4 (Chapters 46 – 51)
September 11 (Chapters 52 – 56)
September 18 (entire book wrap up)
1. I HOPE NOT! A handwritten note is a thing of beauty, although maybe that sentiment will wane. My mom is a big note writer, and I love getting a handwritten note from her! I also have notes (and journals) from my grandmother and other special friends. I am also a fan of post cards, which are both a handwritten note and a travel memento!
ReplyDelete2. Hmm... I can't really remember that part specifically but I assume in that era it was a soda counter or something like that? I am blanking on what details they did give us to be honest.
3. I think Katie has a point. Francie is smart enough and strong enough that she will succeed without Katie pushing her. Neely needs a prod! As the older child who is more apt to be more motivated on my own, I don't think I have any angst if my parents help my brother more, so I am okay with Katie's reasoning in this case.
4. They both want to be (or already feel) more grown up. I also think that they now have extra money to be frivolous, kind of bringing us full circle to the "dumping coffee down the sink" chapter. They are their mother's children!
The details of the date were sparse (end of Chapter 42). Albie asked Francie to go to the movies ("I'll pay"), so I assume that's what they did. But we never see the date. I would LOVE to have that scene in the book.
DeleteI really like the parallel you're making here between the coffee and the gifts. Frivolity is not something those kids get to experience a lot of, so it was sort of sweet to see them ask for ridiculous items, even as I myself imagined all of the more practical items they could have used.
I didn't know it was published as a serial, how cool is that.
ReplyDeleteI love that they wanted spats and fancy lingerie. Those are such "grown people" things to want, and now they are working, and are all grown up, they think!
It was interesting to read about Francie's job as a reader, and how hard jobs like that were on the eyes. I also liked reading about how Francie made friends at the factory.
The part about the flowers felt strange to me, and of all the details in the book it seemed kind of contrived. Did Johnny know he was going to die, did he have a premonition? It just felt like an unlikely thing that he would somehow have $2 to spend on flowers and to write a card and give it to Sissy. It's a work of fiction so obviously fine, but it seems unrealistic to me.
Nicole--Remember that Johnny worked for tips as a singing waiter, but he often drank them away. I don't think it unlikely that he'd give 2$ to Sissy, knowing that if he didn't, that money wouldn't be there.
DeleteIn the upper-righthand corner of the first photo, it says "Based on the Great Best-Selling Novel," so I don't think this was originally a serial. But it's so cool that there are those cartoon images. I'm going to see if I can track down more of them.
DeleteI don't think the flowers felt contrived at all. My father died relatively young (not as young as Johnny! - at 56) and when I visited him for the last time, he showed me a bunch of stuff he'd put away for me. I don't know if had a premonition that he was going to die, but her certainly knew he wasn't doing well. We know Johnny's brothers all died young (Chapter 8) and at the end of Chapter 14 when Johnny and Francie were on the roof of the new apartment Johnny said "This will be my last home." I think Johnny knew what was up and he also knew that Katie wouldn't remember the flowers.
Yes, the book mentions Johnny's death a few times...but how heartbreaking that he sent the card to Sissy in advance. I think this would make the moment even harder for Francie, but in the end I suppose she appreciated the gesture.
DeleteI can see what you meant about it feeling contrived (and I did feel like the author really dragged out that scene, but also, I can see Francie being really emotional about it, too!) - for me, it felt authentic. He knew things weren't going well for him and maybe he just wanted to make sure he did this just in case. He probably knew how much it would mean to Francie and he knew his wife - he knew that she would put Neely's graduation above her daughter's.
DeleteOh, I just LOVE the pictures of the serialized ATGIB!
ReplyDeleteI wonder if there's some gender bias in Katie being more invested in Neely's schooling than Francie's. Up until a couple of generations ago, this was quite dominant in Indian households (and all over the world really), so I'm extra sensitive to it. Of course Francie is more intent on going to school because she loves to read and all that... But perhaps part of that determination comes from knowing that she needs to advocate for herself, as her mother won't.
Well, there is a quite a bit of internalized misogyny in this book, so it wouldn't surprise me if Katie did sort of unconsciously feel like Neely should get more education because he was a boy. It certainly wouldn't be out of character for Katie.
DeleteThat is such a great point! I imagine there is some internalized misogyny - especially because Katie kept saying how Neely was meant to be a doctor. At that time, girls were not expected to continue their education - especially girls in poor families.
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DeleteTotally, completely agree with this. Internalized misogyny again. On the other hand, it's kind of fascinating that Katie thinks *Laurie* (also a girl!) will be able to go on with her education. So why not Francie?
My thinking too. Investing in Francie as a girl may not have the outcome (financially? status wise?) as Neely. But then Annes comment makes me wonder as Katie doesLaurie to get an education. Maybe she really thinks Francie will survive on her own? And she is well educated by reading all those newspapers...
DeleteOh, wow! ATGIB in comic panels and in the paper. What a find! Thanks so much for sharing, D in Texas!
ReplyDeleteHere's an English teacher-y interpretation about the green hats for Katie. Green is most often symbolic of Life in literature. When Katie goes out in a hat, she's participating in Life--doing things out and about and not drudging along working. Perhaps the green hats signify that Katie still has some Life left in her; that she knows how to live and enjoy Life.
The situation with Francie not being able to go to high school was heartbreaking to me. It reminded me of my own grandmother. She loved school so much, but she, too, wasn't able to go to high school. She was needed at home. But her parents compromised and she was allowed to go to eighth grade twice. That's how very much she loved school. She even wanted to be a teacher, but of course, that didn't happen.
I don't know how Francie continues to love and understand her mother. She has an almost otherworldly maturity which, I suppose, comes from growing up so fast and being too responsible too soon. And she lost her father and doesn't want to lose her remaining parent by cutting Katie off. But my goodness! At least Francie is standing up for herself and not letting Katie get away with some of this emotional manhandling.
Francie's Gethsemane scene was so poignant and so heartrending. It was emblematic of how many times she'd had to steel herself against disappointment and hurt. Even on a happy day of her accomplishment, she had sadnesses (not her play, her mother was with Neeley, her father was dead), and now she had to face a desk surely devoid of flowers and a roomful of girls looking at her with pity. But her father had come through, and she hopes for a moment that his death--and even her baby sister--is a dream. But it's not, and she is overcome with grief again. Poor Francie!
Thankfully, after passing the Gargoyle (Miss Garnder), she finds that she had friends after all, that she could have had them all along if she had only had the time.
Time is a precious commodity in the Nolan household, though. These kids have had jobs forever. Francie especially never seemed to have much time. And now neither of them has any. But at least they have money. And they buy the trappings of adulthood with it, spats and lacy lingerie.
I thought the scene when Francie stood up to Katie was so interesting. It really feels like a moment when Francie realizes that she's on her own and Katie has to worry about Neely and Laurie. It's so heartbreaking to me, maybe even more than Johnny dying. That moment when you realize that your parents are not 100% your allies is so hard. I think Francie does love and understand Katie, but I don't think she likes her very much.
DeleteI was so proud of Francie standing up to her mother... and then really disappointed when she apologized, lol. Of course Francie is going to realize she can't have this rift between them, but I did feel so sad for Francie in that moment. I wanted so much better for her!
DeleteThank you for putting the "green hats" in perspective for us (me). It is so interesting to see and learn about those symbols in literature. Do you happen to know if this is a universal thing (like only english literature). I know of a symbol of youth – the blue flower – that pops up in lots of German romantic literature. But I am wondering if that also happens in English literature.
DeleteWell... at first I was livid that Katie chose Neely to go to school and Francie to work. But, if her goal is for BOTH of them to go to high school, then her logic is correct. Neely will never go back to school if he doesn't do it this year.
ReplyDeleteI'm wondering what exactly was the point of the newspaper clipping company Francie works for? They clip selected articles from difference newspapers, put them in envelopes and send them somewhere. Does anyone know or understand why this company exists? Who are they sending the clipped articles to? I'm just curious.
On the subject of handwritten notes- I was struck by the description of the altar carvings done by Francie's grandfather, and how each of the daughters has a cross that he carved from the same wood. Francie is sitting in church thinking how she'll be given one of the crosses when she gets married. Objects and traditions have a deeper meaning to Francie than they do for us nowadays. Of course I can't speak for everyone but in general people aren't treasuring things like that, and handwritten notes are also becoming a thing of the past. I think everyone will still learn to write (because what if you have to jot something down and your keyboard breaks?) but writing will be more of an inconvenience. When I sent you that postcard, Engie, my son was baffled at the whole process. We had to find a STAMP??? And go to the post office? What? He didn't get it.
Okay, I'm eagerly waiting to find out how this book turns out. I'm also a little worried because I'm not sure Francie's life is going to turn out the way I want it to.
After more Googling that I'm willing to admit to, I think what Francie was doing was media monitoring old skool. These clipping bureaus provide clients with copies of media content, which is of specific interest to them and subject to changing demand; what they provide may include documentation, content, analysis, or editorial opinion, specifically or widely. The world's first press clipping agency was established in London in 1852 by a Polish newsagent named Romeike. Actors, writers, musicians and artists would visit his shop to look for articles about themselves in his Continental stock. It was then that Romeike realized that he could turn this into a profitable business. As radio and later television broadcasting were introduced in the 20th century, press clipping agencies began to expand their services into the monitoring of these broadcast media, and this task was greatly facilitated by the development of commercial audio and video tape recording systems in the 1950s and 1960s. With the growth of the Internet in the 1990s, media monitoring service extended their services to the monitoring of online information sources using new digital search and scan technologies to provide output of interest to their clients. If you want to read more about this, I got this all from a Wikipedia article on media monitoring services.
DeleteI don't know if objects and traditions do mean less nowadays. I am not a Christian, but we have a cross in our living room that matches the cross that was on my late MIL's casket. We have several family heirlooms. I think objects still matter to a lot of people!
Engie, you and I are two peas. Seriously. I went down the automat and press clipping bureau rabbit holes. You're right about the press clipping bureaus - but there is some additional really interesting US-based history.
DeleteBurrelle's was one of the first in the US - and this page has a history of what a press clipping bureau is. They also show examples of "clipped" articles. It's mostly done for PR purposes - so, Jenny, the "clips" would be for a client (e.g., a company, or a person like an actor, like Engie said), and then sent to that client. In the example on this page, it's Cold Spring Harbor, and there are 2 clips from that location: https://medium.com/@publicrelationshistory/burrelles-more-than-just-the-clipping-people-d6de047b7b9d
Also! These places are still going strong in the era of online news. Want to hook up with one? Here you go: https://universal-info.com/press-clippings/
I'll post about automats when I post later today. :)
OMG, I am so glad you asked this question, Jenny, and that we got great answers from Engie and Anne! Thank you both so much! I read about her job MULTIPLE times to try and figure out exactly what she was doing, haha.
DeleteOkay, that's interesting and now makes total sense. And it's interesting that such a thing still exists!
DeleteThat is what I figured i was. I remember my dad getting those clippings via fax in the early 90s. So I had a rather clear picture of what she was doing. But I also stumbled on the vagueness of the job as it was never really explained. Thank you for googling and confirming.
DeleteWow! Tobia, do you know what your dad was getting the clippings for? A company or a job or something?
DeleteHe was in a member of the German Parliament back then. So basically each morning he would get the majo headlines in general, articles about his party nationwide and local and also the topics he was involved in. Depending on the current happenings there were times when one fax roll wasn't enough. It was an exciting and stressful time for sure but gave me many insights other people never get.
Delete1. I do not think handwriting will ever go away! I think it's such an essential skill and I don't know how you'd teach kids to read without first teaching them the alphabet, and learning to write the alphabet is part of that. It seems like some schools still teach cursive so maybe that won't completely go away. I have recipes that my mom has written out for me. My mom is still alive and healthy but I know that won't always be the case so I know I'll treasure those handwritten recipe cardsd!
ReplyDelete2. Gosh it's hard to imagine Francie on a date. She hasn't had the ability to relax and really enjoy herself. She's been forced to grow up so fast. So I hope she relaxes and has fun on that date!
3. Ugh this was frustrating. I hope that Francie does end up going back to school next year. I think I would be inclined to have the child who is passionate about learning go to school. It seems like Neely can probably get by with the amount of education he has.
4. I am glad you shared a picture of spats! I meant to google them and forgot to. Those were odd things to want for Christmas! But I am glad they had a more joyous Christmas!
There's a lot of concern from historians that kids aren't learning cursive - they can't read historical primary documents! Only about half of my nieces and nephews are in schools where they teach cursive as part of the curriculum. It's an interesting evolution. Some of them can read the cards I send them (I write in a mishmash of cursive and print, as do a lot of people, I think) and some of them can't because the cursive trips them up.
DeleteI know it's hard to imagine Francie dating! I wish that scene had been included for that very reason!
I need to find out from my nephews if they were taught cursive! I feel like it's a dying "thing" nowadays - we don't even need to worry about having a good signature, everyone just does a squiggly line! I guess I'm not TOO concerned about it, though. Most things are digitized and the people who want to read those historical primary documents WILL learn cursive because they have to.
DeleteMy friend's 13 year old said she WAS taught cursive! I was actually surprised at that.
DeleteYay for stealth bookclub participants!
ReplyDelete1. Yes, when my grandfather died and I inherited a trunk full of family memorabilia, I was soon able to recognize the handwriting of my great grandmothers and it always made me happy when I would pick up a scrap of paper and recognize the handwriting. As for the present day…I do have a few special notes from the hubs and the kids tucked away. I think that cursive will stop being taught but that handwriting never will.
2. Oops I completely forgot the date and Albie. I bet that it was so unmemorable that Francie forgot him too. At least that’s my story.
3. I understand Katie’s logic and I kind of agree. In our house one of the boys really figured out how to “hack” school so that it was easy for him and the other struggled. The reality is that in today’s day and age we’d never have to take a kid of out school and one already graduated so it’s a moot point. BUT theoretically we did have to take a kid out of school it would make sense to take the one who was better out because those skills will transfer to the rest of his life and leave the one who had a harder time in so that he could develop his skills. I’ve got no answer on the hats, except to wonder if green was Betty’s favorite color or if she knew someone in her childhood who liked green hats.
4. The spats made me laugh. I approve of the fancy lingerie for Francie. It's kind of like being able to waste the cup of coffee, just a special thing that's just for her.
Oh, I bet you're absolutely right that the date with Albie was unmemorable. This is a minor spoiler, but in next week's chapters, Francie is really lonely and I sometimes wish we'd learned more about what happened with Albie to sort of underscore some of Francie's feelings.
DeleteI do understand Katie's logic completely. I just wonder if maybe logic wasn't the right answer for this situation? Like, is this irreparably going to damage her relationship with her daughter? I don't know what I'd do because it seems like Katie was really stuck between a rock and a hard place.
I didn’t know what an automat was – thanks for including the picture!
ReplyDeleteI’m no fashionista but the spats – yikes. A hard pass from me in terms of aesthetic.
My daughter knows how to write and read cursive but my son doesn’t yet. I hate to think of not being able to write in cursive; I find it so efficient and beautiful, but I realize it's a "lost art".
I was so sad about Francie and Neeley and school. I just read an article today about Afghan women getting turned away at the airport trying to leave to go to university in other countries; imagine scrounging the money to apply, getting accepted, being escorted to the airport (all by a man of course) and then not being able to leave the country to go...it’s HEARTBREAKING.
Quotes:
Chapter 42:
I was really sad that Katie wasn’t going to Francie’s graduation. “And that was right. Neeley shouldn’t be deprived because Francie had felt like changing schools.”
“Whatever Mama does,” though Francie, “it will be the right thing.”
Francie really thinks highly of Katie...Underneath it all, do my kids feel this way, too? I feel like there would be wailing and gnashing of teeth if I tried to do something like this that seemed so desperately unfair.
I loved when Katie left a big tip:
“For once I wanted us to feel like millionaires. And if twenty cents can make us feel rich, it’s a cheap price to pay.”
Chapter 43: I wrote down the same quote you did, Engie <3
“Remember, Neeley, when we used to go out selling junk?”
“That was a long time ago.”
“Yeah,” agreed Francie. It was, in fact, two weeks since they had dragged their last haul to Carney’s.
Chapter 44:
“From now on, would all new things be disappointing, she wondered?”
Like Alexander the Great, Francie grieved, being convinced that there were no new worlds to conquer.
There is a point in life when we realize...growing up isn't as exciting and impressive as we thought and that's a sad moment.
“Our family used to be like a strong cup,” thought Francie. “It was whole and sound and held things well. When Papa died, the first crack came. And this fight tonight made another crack. Soon there will be so many cracks that the cup will break and we’ll all be pieces instead of a whole thing together. I don’t want this to happen, yet I’m deliberately making a deep crack.” Her sharp sigh was just like Katie’s.
I thought this paragraph tells us so much about Francie's development and maturity; it's also sad because she's becoming more and more wise to the injustices of the world and relationships.
I didn’t know what an automat was – thanks for including the picture!
ReplyDeleteI’m no fashionista but the spats – yikes. A hard pass from me in terms of aesthetic.
My daughter knows how to write and read cursive but my son doesn’t yet. I hate to think of not being able to write in cursive; I find it so efficient and beautiful, but I really see it as a lost art.
I was so sad about Francie and Neeley and school. I just read an article today about Afghan women getting turned away at the airport trying to leave to go to university; scrounging the money to apply, getting accepted, and then not being able to leave the country to go and it’s just HEARTBREAKING.
Chapter 42:
So sad that Katie wasn’t going to Francie’s graduation. “And that was right. Neeley shouldn’t be deprived because Francie had felt like changing schools.”
“Whatever Mama does,” though Francie, “it will be the right thing.”
Big tip:
“For once I wanted us to feel like millionaires. And if twenty cents can make us feel rich, it’s a cheap price to pay.”
Chapter 43:
“Remember, Neeley, when we used to go out selling junk?”
“That was a long time ago.”
“Yeah,” agreed Francie. It was, in fact, two weeks since they had dragged their last haul to Carney’s.
Chapter 44:
“From now on, would all new things be disappointing, she wondered?”
Like Alexander the Great, Francie grieved, being convinced that there were no new worlds to conquer.
“Our family used to be like a strong cup,” thought Francie. “It was whole and sound and held things well. When Papa died, the first crack came. And this fight tonight made another crack. Soon there will be so many cracks that the cup will break and we’ll all be pieces instead of a whole thing together. I don’t want this to happen, yet I’m deliberately making a deep crack.” Her sharp sigh was just like Katie’s.
OMG, Elisabeth, that story about the Afghan girls. I was practically in tears, myself. How absolutely wrong. It's just... wrong.
DeleteMy BIL frequently wears gaiters over his dress shoes when it rains/snows and I do think it's a terrible look. LOL. I'm not even sure what the purpose of spats are (gaiters provide protection for what can sometimes be expensive leather dress shoes) other than fashion and why would you cover up a beautiful shoe?!
DeleteThe last quote about the broken cup made me think about the Japanese art of Kintsugi where they use gold to repair cracks in pottery. The piece is changed, for sure, but it's stronger than ever and the gold adds a different dimension to its beauty. Maybe the Nolans will get all put back together again.
I had this very vague memory of Francie working in an office doing SOMETHING clerical, but couldn't remember if I was misremembering the story. But there it was! Her job! What an interesting job to get at her age. I was also SO delighted at the passage of Francie and Neely going to the hat shop to buy Katie a hat. I was just happy for YOU, Engie!!
ReplyDelete1) I do think handwriting is becoming a lost art, and especially cursive. I don't use cursive a lot in my day-to-day life now, but I am definitely glad I learned it! I wonder if it's still taught in schools - need to ask my nephews about that. I have my great-grandma's and grandma's Bibles, and they wrote in the margins and seeing their handwriting is so precious to me.
2) Honestly, I completely forgot about this. I got worried I hadn't read far enough with this section of chapters, lol. I wish it had been captured on the page! I would have loved to be in Francie's head on her first date with Albie. AHH.
3) I was LIVID with Katie about this decision, and so proud of Francie for standing up to her. For me, it just felt like another way Katie was favoring Neely. She wants Neely to be a doctor (even though Neely doesn't want to be a doctor), so he must be in school. It makes me so sad for Francie. She loves school so much, and she should have the opportunity to get the education she deserves. Ugh.
4) I loved their frivolous items! I grew up poor, too, and I still find it so delightful to buy something just because I want it! There is something so sweet about it.
To your last point, I have VIVID memories of listening to a radio story in the 90s (?) about a woman who was trying to make her welfare money last while feeding her children. It was the middle of winter and she bought raspberries, even though they were out of season and expensive. She basically said that she liked to splurge on one thing every week for her family because otherwise what was the point of living. I remember the reporter pushing back and saying that she could buy more beans/rice/peanut butter with those extra dollars and the woman responding "don't you ever have a treat?". It's such a vivid memory to me because it's so true. We all need something that's just ours!
DeleteChapters 42-45
ReplyDelete1) RE: cursive. My parents and I JUST had this conversation. I found a site with the typical "above the blackboard" cursive script, and it turned out that it had a weird version of the capital Q and Z. So then we got into a discussion on that. We're thrilling people, I tell you. But no, I don't think we will lose the ability to handwrite. There are some things that MUST be handwritten. Thank you notes. Sympathy cards. Etc.
2) I bet they went out to a soda fountain and... hm. Movie? Show?
3) The internalized misogyny. It's just rampant. I was ticked - seriously ticked - at Katie. Her logic is twisted, her preferences and biases are obvious, and Francie (for the most part) just... absorbs it. I did find their fight really interesting, especially Francie's point that they had to grow up too soon, which is why they are fighting back against Katie. I don't think their relationship is doomed - just evolving.
4) I laughed and laughed when Neeley made Francie buy her own undies. Ha! Also, I thought it was pretty funny when Francie laments how cold she is on the walk to church. And she wishes she had her bloomers on. For anyone wondering, here's some info on bloomers: https://www.encyclopedia.com/sports-and-everyday-life/fashion-and-clothing/clothing-jewelry-and-personal-adornment/bloomers
Other things that stood out.
I remembered the verses that the girls wrote in the autograph book. Were autograph books or signing yearbooks a "thing" for anyone else? (I had both, who knows where they are now!)
I really noticed the use of spelling to convey differences in how people speak in these chapters - Francie being aware of her Brooklyn way of saying things, the way the "girls" at the factory said "terlet" "samwishes", etc. Oh, and the Jewish shopkeepers, too, during the Christmas shopping.
Quotes:
“I guess there is nothing new, then, in the world,” decided Francie unhappily. “If there is anything new or different, some part of it must be in Brooklyn and I must be used to it and wouldn’t be able to notice it if I came across it.”
Oh, Francie. The world is so big, and I hope you get to see just how different it is from what you know.
“It's a beautiful religion and I wish I understood it more. No, I don't want to understand it all. It's beautiful because it's always a mystery."
Francie's continued vacillation on faith fascinates me, as a person who no longer believes.
Things I looked up:
* Press Clipping Bureau
A media monitoring service, a press clipping service or a clipping service as known in earlier times, provides clients with copies of media content, which is of specific interest to them and subject to changing demand; what they provide may include documentation, content, analysis, or editorial opinion, specifically or widely. These services tend to specialize their coverage by subject, industry, size, geography, publication, journalist, or editor. (from Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_monitoring_service)
* Clappy - I couldn't remember which STD was called the "clap", LOL. Gonorrhea. (I thought it might be syphilis...)
* Automat - I remembered reading about automats recently, and yep! The Post and the Times both had articles in the last few years. If you really want to read them - they're on a documentary that came out in 2022 - let me know and I can send you the gift link. :) (Now that is a documentary I'd watch. I'm such a nerd...)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2022/04/08/automat-covid-horn-hardart/
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/18/movies/automat-movie-interview.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automat#
* Confiteor (from the Christmas mass) - a penitential prayer said during Catholic and some Lutheran church services.
* Calyx - the green petals around a bloom, it's composed of green sepals (see https://www.natureinstitute.org/article/reinout-amons/an-open-secret for a pic)
We used to sign yearbooks (or, rather, the kids whose parents could afford to buy yearbooks had theirs signed - I have exactly zero yearbooks - LOL), but it never whole poems/songs! We just signed generic "have a good summer!" or "can't wait to see you next year!" unless it was a friend you had a close relationship with and then you might put an inside joke or something in there. I've never seen an autograph book, but in college my best friend put together a fun scrapbook where each of her friends had a two-page display to decorate in their own way. That was a fun project!
DeleteI am obsessed with the newspaper clipping! What an amazing treasure: Thanks D!
ReplyDeleteI'm a little behind because of a full weekend and then hurricane prep. :(
I hope SO much that cursive never goes away! How sad would that be for future generations?
I have so many letters, cards and notes from my Mom, Brother, Father and Grandmother that I will always treasure!
I was hoping we'd get a glimpse into Francie's first date. But nope. Nothing. Is that weird? Or is it just me?
I can mostly see Katie's reasoning for sending Neely back to school because otherwise he would NOT have gone. Turns out, he liked it, which was a surprise to me as well as him.
I love green, so bring on the Green Hats!
I had to look up Spats. Fashion can be so odd. Right? He wanted them so badly, but was taunted by the (unfashionable) local boys so he was going to save them. I think I've had moments like that as a teen, taking a risk and then regretting it.
Francie with the lingerie was out of left field for me. Where did she learn about this? Maybe she just saw it in the store window?
Also, being pinched on the bus? How horrific and Sissy felt it was a right of passage. 😩
Yes! The pinching just accepted as normal. The amount of sexual harassment/assault in this book is overwhelming! I'm honestly regretting giving it to my niece for her birthday in May. I kind of hope she doesn't read it until she's older.
Delete1) As I said in last weeks discussions I have a recipe book by my grandma with many alterations to the recipe she scribbled in the margins. Also kept all the letters my grandparents have written me. Same with godparents, parents and some of my sisters. I love letters and will cherish them.
ReplyDeleteI am no sure if handwriting will one day not being taught anymore. It could be. Or it just evolves. I can’t write „fracture“ – an old handwriting style my grandparents were taught. I may be able to decipher it though. Somybe writing/language and all will just evolve. Maybe one day they program everything in 0 & 1 and it just is a new language… What do I know.
2) ohh… Did that already happen? I. Though we will hear about it. I guess movies is out. Maybe there was some sort of entertainment in a need by park they went to? Maybe snatched some sort of pastry on the way and shared sitting on a bench.
3) I kind of understand her reasoning. But it really is not fair. She is pushing Neely and stirring him in the right direction but I have a feeling those things are a bit fruitless. When I read Neely is hanging out with those errand boys that are some sort of gang.. I dont know. It would be more successful having Francie be the smart one but I guess girls just didnt mean as much…
4) I find this hilarious. Maybe those items are more a symbol of crossing over into adulthood and they want to showcase that – for themselves and for the world to see. Maybe they carry themselves differently wearing those items. And they bought it with self earned money. That must be empowering.
Oh wow that newspaper clipping is so exciting. I am learning so much about the book and the time and the life. I would have never dived so deep into the book was it not for this book club. I so appreciate it Engie, Thank you.
Again I haven’t marked down any quotes. I guess I am only saving Coates that are a bit more out of context and can be applied to other situations..
The date with Albie happened off-page. We never hear ANYTHING about it. I am so curious, though!
DeleteThe newspaper clipping is so very interesting, isn't it? I'm so glad D in Texas sent it along for us to all marvel at how cool it is!