What were your overall thoughts on this book?
Here's what I think:
- The POVs were too similar so it was impossible to keep the characters straight. The fact that the POV changed in every chapter made it even worse.
- I didn't want to spend time in this world. The people were mean, the subject was heavy, and I was just not interested in being there.
- I thought this book was graphic and gross. It wasn't just the food descriptions, although that didn't help.
- The writing was both elliptical and unclear and also heavy handed at times. There were times she was sort of oblique about what was going on (see: the watermelon scene and the two sentence abortion mention in "Waiting Between the Trees") and other times when her use of imagery and metaphor hit you over the head. I don't know. I didn't love the writing style.
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Pop culture:
There's a 1993 movie starring Tsai Chin, Kieu Chinh, Lisa Lu, France Nuyen, Rosalind Chao, Lauren Tom, Tamlyn Tomita, and Ming-Na Wen. I've heard of none of these people. I bet no one is shocked to learn that I have not watched the movie, but the plot seems to follow the the book fairly closely. A few differences:
- In the movie, Lena and Harold get divorced and Lena has a new relationship.
- Rose and Ted get back together in the movie.
Has anyone seen the movie?
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TJLC questions to ponder:
1) Which of the characters did you identify with the most? Why?
2) While the book has been critically received positively for the most part, there are some criticisms that the book leans into stereotypical portrayals of Asian men and some aspects of parenthood. Do you think this book challenges stereotypes or leans into them?
3) I hate to keep harping on the structure of this book, but why do you think Tan structured it this way using parables as framing devices for each section? What would have changed if the book had been told chronologically or through back-to-back chapters featuring mother and daughters?
4) What does the book tell us about American culture? About American immigrant culture?
5) In the first chapter, June discusses her mother's take on the elements that make people:
Each person is made of five elements, she told me.
Too much fire and you have a bad temper. ..
Too little wood and you bent too quickly to listen to other people's ideas...
Too much water and you flowed in too many directions...
How do you think these elements are used to establish personality traits in the rest of the book?
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Most iconic line poll:
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That's a wrap on 2025 CBBC! Thanks for joining and participating.
I'm so glad this book is done. I didn't like anyone, though I could admire the strength in some of the mothers. I want to shake some sense into the daughters. It was compelling to read- I did finish it in an afternoon, but I never want to read it again. Ignoring your prompts because it would make me open up and browse the book again.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I do find interesting is that the moms rarely told their daughters what life was like for them when they were younger, unless circumstances forced it. My own parents ( not immigrants, mind) were like that. They grew up in the depression and WWII, and would only mention some funny things about their youth, rarely anything bad. Sort like how the moms in this book lived through awful things, but they set their faces forward and tried not to dwell what could not be changed.
Yes, even though I didn't love this book, I do feel like I got a lot out of it and learned a lot. It is hard for children to understand their parents' lives before they were born, let alone learn lessons from it!
DeleteBasically at the 75% mark my status was "I've fallen and I can't get up". I'm still interested in trying the movie to see if I can make sense of the book for myself.
ReplyDeleteRegardless of the outcome, It was fun to hang out and read together!
Yes, I think even a book you don't like can be great book club fodder!
DeleteTJLC tells such a human saga... I love and respect this book so much for all that it opened me up to. I'd always thought of it as one of those great novels that bridged cultural gaps... Like Kingsolver's Poisonwood Bible in the sense that specifics cease to matter, because of the universal truths calling out to readers... So sorry that it wasn't that kind of reading experience for you all here. Good luck with the next book!
ReplyDeleteAGREEEEEEEEEEEE. Also universal truths of again and generational misunderstanding-- this is what caught me so much reading it now at the age I am with daughters of my own (last time I read it was pre-college)
DeleteI think the lesson I have learned is that I need to have read books already before I offer them up as CBBC options. You live and you learn!
DeleteI really loved this book. I found it so moving, the exploration both of the complex mother-daughter bonds and the look into Chinese immigrant culture. I found the backstory of four women coming together for decades to be very poignant. I always enjoy reading about cultures that are different from my own, and so I really enjoyed this. I also thought it was a great look into how humans can move forward through unspeakable things. It's also a really great timepiece. It's very late 80s. One of the scenes has to do with Waverly talking about the fear of getting AIDS from a gay hairdresser, and I do clearly remember that kind of ignorance in that time period. People really thought that way, and that scene brought me back to that time of ignorance and intolerance.
ReplyDeleteThere was something of an era about the gay hairstylist. I found it sort of forced in, though. It was a good reminder of when the story took place, though.
DeleteI really enjoyed this book, though admit it was confusing as all get out. I took notes and I think that was the main reason I managed to muddle my way through the book (it allowed me to keep track of which daughter belonged to which mother, etc).
ReplyDeleteI rated it 4/5 stars.
I feel like this book leaned into most stereotypes? Or at least the stereotypes I've come across. I'm curious what other people thing about this...
Yes, the notes in the front of the book about who was who were super useful in a lot of my summaries.
DeleteSo I had mixed feeling about this book while reading it. Basically once I read the section for that week, i wasn't compelled to pick it up again. But then when I did, I got engrossed in each story. That's how I eventually read this book, as a collection of short stories. The relationships between the characters and which daughter went to which mother were too confusing, so I just gave up on that. I can't even imagine it as a movie, because to me it didn't have a linear plot.
ReplyDeleteOverall I liked the writing. I found it to be sad, so I can't say I exactly enjoyed reading it. But I'm glad we read it for book club, because I wouldn't have read it otherwise, and I think it was worth it.
Thank you for hosting book club as always, Engie! You do a great job.
I think my main issue was that just as I was getting to know someone we'd switch POVs, so in the end it felt like a series of superficial stories without learning things about the characters I wanted to learn. Maybe what I really wanted to read was the extended cut of the book that was four times as long!
DeleteEngie--THIS. I think that's exactly what I need, too. The book was too fragmented for me to get to know/care for anyone and her struggle with any passion or depth.
DeleteI’ve seen the movie, way back when, and I borrowed the DVD from the library and watched it last week. There is another difference between the film and the book which is stark to me. In the book, one of the mothers has an abortion, and she says it was no big deal to do that in China at the time. In the film, she drowns her baby. Which I think is NEVER not a big deal. I knew 2 of the actors, Rosalind Chao was on Star Trek, The Next Generation, and Andrew McCarthy (as Ted) was a big 80s brat pack guy.
ReplyDeleteI really liked this book, but I thought the male characters came off very poorly. Almost all were terrible people. Were they stereotypical Asian problems? I don’t know. I think I don’t know enough about male Asian stereotypes.
You asked which character we identified with most closely, and for me it was June. When this came out, I was still getting to know my twin sisters, whom I met when I was 22. Thankfully, we still had our dad (our common parent) so we didn’t have a huge loss hanging over us. But I thought about her and her relationship with them. How they can be close, but will never have the shared childhood, will never have lived in the same place together. I know that feeling.
She DROWNS her baby? That is...very different, I'd say.
DeleteOh, interesting that you had such close parallels with June! That's such an interesting aspect of your past.
I feel kind of guilty that you disliked this book so much! Thanks for leading the book club and the discussion despite your misgivings about the book. It's been really fun to read everyone's comments and to revisit this story. You always do such a great job of asking thoughtful questions to guide the discussion.
ReplyDeleteYour question about stereotyping is very interesting. I think the men of the novel were almost caricatures of themselves, so maybe that's accurate? But then again, maybe I felt that way because the audiobook narrator did such a weird job of narrating the male characters. I did also feel that there was some of that "wise sensei" trope throughout, but also the idea that children can glean wisdom from their mothers only if they try to understand the messages that have been coded into their mothers' pasts and beliefs and behaviors is kind of central to the book, so... I don't know.
I think if I identified with anyone it was June. It seems so relatable to feel like you don't truly know someone close to you.
While I have not seen the movie, now I kind of want to. I do know one of the actors! Ming-Na was on ER back in the 90s!
No need to feel guilty. I think you can sometimes have better discussions about books you don't really love.
DeleteThe men did seem to be caricatures. It felt like Amy Tan really did not care for men!
Now that you say it, I think I sort of remember Ming-Na! I just looked her up and she's a very successful television actress, so the fact that I didn't know her doesn't mean much!
I also really enjoyed this book, or maybe appreciated is the better word. It feels wrong to say I enjoyed such a sad story. I did get confused about who was who at times. The first section was very grounding for me, though, so if I forgot who was who, I'd look back at the character map on the first pages and remind myself what happened to their mothers in the first section. I think the book shows how incredibly difficult it is to be an immigrant and how easy it is to pass along trauma to your children. If this was told in modern times and if the characters had the financial means, they could probably avoid passing on some of that trauma. But they had the double whammy of being very poor and living during a time when trauma was not dealt with.
ReplyDeleteYes! It is interesting to think about intergenerational trauma. When you don't have the time and/or money to deal with your own baggage, it's obviously going to be passed on. Very good point, Lisa.
DeleteI liked this book once I let myself off the hook and didn't try to pay attention to who was who. I read it like independent stories all linked to a culture that was foreign to me. It was interesting to learn about the culture. I don't think I saw the movie, but Coach insists that we saw it in the movie theater. My memory is so much better than his. Now I'm hellbent on trying to figure out which movie he's thinking of. I think I identify the most with June, because I can relate to thinking you know someone and then realizing, maybe I didn't really know them that well. I feel like this book magnifies all that is wrong with American culture - everyone out for themselves, not tuned into what other people have going on, going into relationships/marriages without the best of intentions or without enough awareness of self.
ReplyDeleteThanks for organizing this read. I enjoy reading all the comments and I appreciate learning things from other people that I didn't necessarily pull from the book. I appreciate your time in running this whole discussion. Well done you. I hope you love the next book we land on.
I feel like I'm in the minority - I think I'm Waverly. I had a sort of promise when I was young and things are fine for me now, but maybe I'm a judgmental grump?
DeleteI wanted to vote for the first quote, but I really thought that the line that summed up and was most thematic to the book was the one about "only being me." It seemed to me that all the daughters were struggling the most with that, with finding their own identities among Chinese tradition, American culture, and dealing with intimate relationships.
ReplyDeleteI found it difficult to identify with any character because they all ran together for me. I was confused a great deal of the time and soon just read the book as a series of vignettes, appreciating each plot and subplot for what it was.
Personally, I felt this book actually lacked a cohesive structure. I guess I can understand what Tan was going for/doing, but it didn't land for me. I paid very little attention to the parables and their importance or parallel to the stories. The whole thing felt like a scramble to me. I wonder, however, if I had been in a better state physically and mentally, would I have given it a better read? I admit that my concentration is not up to par because of the EB/ME. Maybe I'm being unfair.
I'm not sure that this is an indictment of either culture. It definitely contrasts the two, and in my mind, it's the borderline cruelty of traditional Chinese culture that comes off the worst. Obviously, I'm bringing an overwhelmingly American sensibility to it, but so much of the maternal parenting here is harsh and scary. And, at times, cold.
It's a huge undertaking to do CBBC, and I'm always so appreciative, Engie. Especially this time, when you've had so many other huge things happening in your life. I wish we had read something you loved and looked forward to delving into.
I'm not going to watch the movie, and I'll be donating this book to the Little Free soon. (Right now it's SN*WING, so not soon! ugh) I hope whoever picks it up loves it.
I feel better that the parables weren't very meaningful for you, either. I really struggled with them. I, too, think maybe this is a *me* problem, rather than a problem with the book. I'm really glad I don't have to do a test on The Joy Luck Club!
DeleteI struggled a lot with this book.
ReplyDeleteListening to it as audio was just impossible to grasp anything. But the reading experience seems to be equally tough.
I am just glad I didnt buy the book which I I briefly considered.
So I can not even answer any of your questions because I really don't remember anything at all. I am glad I gave it a try, one less book on the TBR but let's just say we had better picks, right?
The audiobook was so hard to follow, but your weekly summaries helped me so much! I couldn't identify with any character. There was so much switching viewpoints, so many horrible mental images, awful events, and all the parables that made no sense to me. But, I did love how it ended. The ending made it all worthwhile. I haven't seen the movie, and I don't plan to.
ReplyDeleteI've had this book on my shelves forever and still haven't got around to reading it. After reading what you had to say here, I seriously doubt I would enjoy it. Thanks for stopping by today!
ReplyDeleteThe first and last quote are tied for me, and also sort of say the same thing - the mothers have struggled so much that the only way they can see for their children not to suffer similarly is to force them onto what the mothers see as the right path. This is a doomed enterprise both because it puts too heavy a burden on the children and because there is no possibility of compromise in their thinking.
ReplyDeleteI loved the book, when I first read it and now again. I didn't have trouble keeping anyone apart, I'm not sure why. I think I related most to Jing Mei/June. I knew I was smart but I had no self-confidence, so I floundered around a little trying to figure out what I could excel at. My parents didn't place the same expectations on me, but they did have pretty traditional ideas of what success is. I liked the movie - Rosalind Chao was in Star Trek The Next Generation and I've always liked her, and Tamlyn Tomita has been in a lot of things I've seen. I liked it but it lacked some of the subtleties of the book which I think were really only possible to do in writing.
Thank you again for hosting this; I know you're a busy bee, and this is time-consuming.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad I read the book, but I didn't love it, mainly for the same reasons you did. I didn't find it gross, just very confusing. I couldn't keep the characters straight, and the timeline was wonky. The characters didn't resonate very much with me, and I kind of felt bad about that, but what can I do?
~Suz