******************
What happened in these chapters?
We begin with another parable in which a mother visits her daughter's new home, but doesn't like that there is a mirror at the foot of the bed because happiness will deflect away. The mother has a second mirror and the mirrors now reflect at each other bringing "peach-blossom luck" and both women see the daughter's future child in the mirror.
Lena and her husband Harold split all of their expenses equally. Harold started his own business with Lena's support, but Harold does not promote her because he doesn't want to look like he's favoring his wife. When Ying-ying comes to visit, she notes the list of expenses that Lena and Harold keep on their fridge and Ying-ying says Lena should not pay for the ice cream since Lena will never eat it. Ying-ying knocks over a vase that was on a wobbly table Harold had made in his student days.
Waverly is meeting Lindo for lunch and she remembers how after their fight in the street, Lindo no longer polished Waverly's trophies or cut out the notices in the papers about her victories. Waverly's confidence ebbs and she gives up chess. Waverly's first marriage ends in divorce and now she's going to marry a man named Rich, who she thinks her mother hates. It turns out this is a misunderstanding and there is some consideration of Waverly postponing her wedding so they can do their honeymoon in China. Maybe Lindo will go with them?
Rose finds divorce papers and a ten thousand dollar check in the mail from Ted. She ignores the papers for weeks until Ted calls to find out what's going on. He tells Rose that he wants the house because he now plans to marry someone else. Rose laughs and tells him to come to the house to pick up his papers. When he arrives, Rose gives him the papers still unsigned and announces that she will not be leaving the house. She refuses to allow him to uproot her and throw her away.
A few months before her death, Suyuan cooked a crab dinner for ten people to celebrate the Chinese New Year. Suyuan and June went to Chinatown to buy crabs. While the two women were choosing crabs, the leg of one of the crabs became detached, and the grocer demanded that Suyuan pay for the creature. Suyuan bought eleven instead of ten, stating that the damaged crab would be extra. The people at the party all pick the best crabs until there are only two left - Jing-mei tried to take the defective crab, but Suyuan insisted she take the better one. Suyuan then sniffed her crab, and took it into the kitchen to throw it away.
Waverly is terrible to June telling her she's going to get AIDS from her gay hairstylist and that work she did for Waverly's company is not good enough to use. Suyuan gave June a jade pendant, telling her that it was her “life’s importance.” She advised June not to listen to Waverly, whose words always “move sideways” like a crab, and explained that June could and should move in a different direction.
******************
![]() |
| Diane's used copy of the book that she snagged at a library sale for $1! |
Last week's homework:
Was anyone able to strike up a conversation with an immigrant about cultural relationships in their family? What did you learn?
******************
Lines of note:
I had been talking to too many people, my friends, everybody it seems, except Ted. To each person I told a different story. Yet each version was true, I was certain of it, at least the moment that I told it. ("Without Wood")
I guess this is one justification for lying.
My mother once told me why I was so confused all the time. She said I was without wood. Born without wood so that I listened to too many people. ("Without Wood")
I know someone like this. She always calls lots of people to find out their opinions on things before making up her own mind. It's kind of crazy that she doesn't have opinions on her own life.
Over the years, I learned to choose from the best opinions. Chinese people had Chinese opinions. American people had American opinions. And in almost every case, the American version was much better.
It was only later that I discovered there was a serious flow with the American version. There were too many choices, so it was easy to get confused and pick the wrong thing. ("Without Wood")
I've talked about it many times on this blog how dumbfounded I am by the selection of PopTarts, cereal, and coffee creamer at the store. And don't get me started on the car shopping thing.
Then, one by one, she grabbed the crabs by their back, hoisted them out of the sink and shook them dry and awake. The crabs flexed their legs in midair between sink and stove. She stacked the crabs in a multileveled steamer that sat over two burners on the stove, put a lid on top, and lit the burners. ("Best Quality")
Gross.
******************
Things I looked up:
"A psyche-atricks will only make you hulihudu, make you see heimongmong." ("Without Wood")
Hulihudu is a Chinese word that means confused, vague, or muddle-headed; describes a state of being lost. Heimongmong a Chinese term that translates to "dark fog," representing a state of confusion, vagueness, and a lack of clarity, often associated with a feeling of being lost (emotional fog).
Hymn number 335 ("Without Wood") - I don't know. Seems like #335 can be a lot of different hymns based on sect and hymnal used. *shrug*
Steuben crystal strawberry ("Without Wood") - Exactly what it sounds like!
| For the low, low price of $1400 on Ruby Lane. |
Color of jade having to do with quality ("Best Quality") - High-quality jade color is judged by intensity, evenness, and saturation, with the most valuable being a deep, vibrant, and consistently distributed green, known as Imperial Jade. Other factors include high translucency, which allows light to penetrate, and a pure, even texture. There are colors of jade other than green that can also be valuable.
******************
Questions to ponder:
1) What's with the parables at the beginning of each section? Do you find them useful as framing devices?
2) Why is Tan so insistent on graphic depictions of food preparation?
3) Why is Waverly so terrible? That's a real question. She seems like she has a good life - a child she's happy to have, a new significant other, loving parents, a good career, no money worries - and yet she's terrible to everyone in her life. Why?
4) How do you think this is going to wrap up? Is June going to meet her Chinese siblings? Is Waverly going to get knocked down a peg? Is Rose going to be able to stay in her house?
******************
Homework for you:
Pick a theme before you read the next passages - weather, color, food, animals, etc. - and note it when you find in in the book. What is the importance of that theme in context of the book?
I'm going to pick color as my theme and when it comes up, I'm going to analyze it!
******************
Upcoming CBBC schedule:


I think she's so graphic with food prep as she is mirroring the moms' ability to look at life, doing hard things to get through. The moms are realistic- life isn't pretty. The daughters have no idea about what matters or how hard life can be. I still don't like any of the characters much.
ReplyDeleteI did love the mom , when Lena's husband was describing how marvelously rustic their country barn home was, she just repeated, 'Bleach and and sponge costs so much.' I imagine Harold smiling at this agreement while in reality it was incredulous criticism.
I don't care for many of these characters much, either. I guess that's just the way it works sometimes in these books.
DeleteI mean, as someone who has been on the receiving end of criticism about how I spend my money (particularly clothing), I felt this scene in my soul. Everyone thinks they're right.
Hi! I'm back! Oh my GOD I love this book. I love it so much. I love the parables at the beginning and I feel that they set the tone for the section - this one being on marriage. Wow, Waverly is awful, but everyone is more than one thing, right? I feel like there is a whole thing that she becomes a chess champion only because her mother is supporting her, but when her mother is hurt and the support falls away, so does her confidence in everything.
ReplyDeleteI laughed at the "marry rich, and now she's marrying Rich." It felt like SUCH a dad joke.
I really enjoy the parts about the Chinese horoscope - wood, etc. I have a friend who introduced me to it casually, telling me that I have a lot of water. I need to read up more on it because I find it fascinating.
The crab party made me SO sad, how June's mother ended up with the bad crab. I thought that was a good bit of symbolism, as she died shortly after.
In terms of this: "I had been talking to too many people, my friends, everybody it seems, except Ted. To each person I told a different story. Yet each version was true, I was certain of it, at least the moment that I told it. ("Without Wood")
I guess this is one justification for lying." - I don't know if that's always lying. Sometimes there are many truths in a different situation.
Thanks for hosting the book club! I'm happy to be back!
Also, I hated Harold so much.
Nicole, I am *shocked* by this response. This whole time I've been thinking "thank goodness Nicole isn't reading this scene about the bird being abused and these poor animals being tortured" and here you are LOVING this book I think is terrible. I have no words.
DeleteI did laugh at the dad joke. It was funny!
Once again, I was reluctant to pick up this book again. I'm in the middle of Ninth House, and switching over to Joy Luck Club was not appealing, BUT! Then I read the parable at the beginning of this section and I was all in, immediately. It really touched me, and I think it's because of the phase of life I'm in (looking forward hopefully to grandchildren- NOT RIGHT NOW, but in the next 5-6 years?)
ReplyDeleteAnyway- I really liked these chapters. The whole money thing with Lena and Harold went along with something I've been thinking about recently, how skewed our relationship is with money, how our lives revolve around it- Lena and Harold's situation isn't the norm (at least I hope it's pretty rare) but it's still an example of the power we give to money.
I didn't get a chance to talk to my Chinese coworker this week. Mainly because every time I saw her I imagined myself saying something like "Hey, you're Chinese! I'm reading The Joy Luck Club!" and I felt like an asshole. Maybe I just don't know her well enough, or maybe I just need to wait until the perfect moment comes up, when we have a nice chunk of time to talk.
I have to confess I didn't finish the last chapter in this section because I procrastinated. This week I will finish Ninth House AND Joy Luck, so I'm totally prepped for next week's discussion.
What if you don't have grandchildren? What if neither of your kids wanted that? How would that make you feel?
DeleteI get it. I have someone I want to ask about their relationship with their parents, but I have also chickened out because it's so personal and, frankly, none of my business. I wouldn't like it if someone asked me about my relationship with my parents!!
I’m listening to the audiobook and then following along with the physical book, and the narrator’s voice for Harold was horrible and hilarious. I hate him so much. You know, if they want to keep track of everything they buy and make sure it comes out even, fine. My husband and I keep our money separate, and we each pay half of the bills, because we make about the same amount of money. In the past he has made more, and I have made more, and we have accommodated for that. BUT to say that because she makes less, WHICH HE HAS CONTROL OVER, so she has less say and less stake in the fucking HOUSE? I would knock over that goddamn vase and table too. What an absolute ass. I don’t remember how the book ends AT ALL, but man, I hope she leaves his ass.
ReplyDeleteAlso, YAY Rose for fighting for herself!
The cooking scenes don’t bother me, I guess because I have spent enough time in Chinese groceries and I cook. And fresh crab is definitely a thing in the Bay Area, so I’ve been through that whole process.
I’ve put the DVD for the movie on hold at the library, I’m going to watch it next weekend (if it comes in on time). I remember really liking it, though it made me cry. I can’t believe that was over 30 years ago. I wonder how much my perspective will have changed, now that I am in the age range of the moms?
Yes, we also keep separate finances, but how much we pay for household expenses has changed depending on who makes the most at any given time. Because it's a partnership at having a successful life, not a literal scorekeeping game!
DeleteSo, here's the thing. The reason we became pescatarian is because neither of us could stomach dealing with meat any more. Raw chicken was the dealbreaker for both of us. After reading this book, I'm seriously considering taking out fish from my diet because I'm finding it so revolting.
I haven't reread this section yet, but I'm realizing that I remember most of the book in quite vivid detail. Lena throwing up the ice cream, which is why she shouldn't have to pay for Harold's. The mom asking why she doesn't fix the broken table and Lena thinking "that's such a simple question". For me, this was probably the most concrete example of a mother's bluntness directly leading to a daughter's life improving.
ReplyDeleteWaverly being a 24-carat bitch to June. The dead crab. In the movie, I felt like they Hollywood-ed up the crab thing too much - the mom says to June that June tried to pick the worst quality crab because she has 'the best quality heart'.
I thought Waverly's childhood seemed golden because of the chess thing, but when you feel like your mom only loves you and is proud of you because of one thing you do, that doesn't feel safe or particularly comforting. I thought she resented June for NOT being a prodigy. The AIDS thing from the hairdresser was a bridge too far for me, though, that is just nasty.
I liked the parables - I thought they were perfect framing devices and also showed how the Chinese mother's thoughts and behaviours were based in tradition/ superstition, and how often life did seem to mirror the parables.
For a Chinese mother who doesn't work, food preparation is one of the most important times of the day. The thing with the crab also reflects how they see the tenets by which they live their lives in every aspect, including a crab that is not healthy.
About the choices - there's a passage in The Poisonwood Bible about the daughter who married an African man coming with her family to the US, and they go to a grocery store and the children are stupefied. She says that it is all stuff no one needs and a child says "but how can there be SO MANY KINDS of things people don't need", and oh my goodness, yes.
I can't believe people read this book AND THEN WATCHED A MOVIE. I can't believe it. Why would you want to spend more time with these people? I think everyone knows I'm not going to watch this movie.
DeleteI remember that scene from The Poisonwood Bible! Maybe that's why I'm always dumbfounded at the grocery store. It's crazy because there are like twenty versions of Doritos, which we don't need or want, but my husband struggles to find oat free granolas! It's really a crazy world at the grocery store.
I spoke to my Chinese friend, who is 2nd generation, about her relationship with her mother. I told her I was reading the Joy Luck Club, she had read the book and loved it, and I let her know that I was asking to share with this book club. She was fine with that.
ReplyDeleteShe told me both her parents were very liberal, met in Canada in the 1950s, married by choice not arranged marriage, were poor hard working farmers and over time did well in real estate. She did not experience the kind of friction with her mother that the daughters in the book do. She said her parents encouraged education, and she went to university, became a CGA, and worked as a city planner, did not insist on arranged marriages or only to marry Chinese people, 2 of her 3 brothers married Caucasian women. She is married to a Chinese man, and her in-laws are also very liberal.
She did tell me a funny story about the time she was travelling to Japan and China and was pregnant with her son. Her mother told her she had to stay away from temples. The reason being that inside some of the temples there are altars with statues of monkeys and if you stare at them your child will be ugly. She said that it would be rather hard to stay away from them when the tour included a lot of visits to them. Her mother told her when she entered them to keep her eyes closed. She didn't keep her eyes closed and her son is very handsome!
She added that in Chinese culture, parental piety is still very strong. Children look after parents, grandparents and continue to honour them after they die. One of the traditions is grave cleaning. Families go to the graves, clean them up, have a picnic with lots of food, leave some of the food, incense etc. I looked this tradition up and it is called Qingming Festival (Tomb Sweeping Day). It often falls around Easter.
Waverly is a real piece of work! I felt bad for June when she though she had the upper hand on her only to have Waverly strike her down again. I did like that June's mother supported her and gave her some sage advice after dinner - basically "who cares what Waverly says or thinks!" I think June needs to stop comparing herself to Waverly. Hard to do, but will make enduring the family get-togethers easier.
Looking forward to the rest of the chapters to see where these characters land.
It's interesting to hear from the perspective of more liberal/less traditional immigrant families. But even then, there was the superstition about the temples! Some things are unavoidable, I guess!
DeleteWaverly is so terrible. I just want her to feel gratitude for what she has and stop being such a downer all the time. Oh, well. I guess some people are perpetually cloudy.
Okay, I enjoyed the writing and stories as per usual (while also feeling highly WTF about a lot of the characters and their choices), but I am getting SO distracted by the narrator of the audiobook. The men all sound... ridiculous. And there was one chapter where I swear the man she was voicing was white, but she was using an Asian accent for him. It is completely taking me out of the story.
ReplyDeleteI love all the descriptions of food. As in many cultures, it feels like food is inextricably linked to love and class and skill/talent and wealth and all sorts of other important dynamics that impact the various relationships. And eating is a visceral, intimate, kind of disgusting process so it makes sense to me that Tan provides a lot of vivid imagery.
1) I do enjoy the parables at the start of each section. They kind of give me a sense for what is to come and they are especially beautifully written.
ReplyDelete2) I have not felt like the descriptions of food preparation were overly graphic! I guess I just gloss over them? I'm not easily disgusted by things, though... I think the difference in food preferences is such a core part of the immigrant experience. Like walking through China town is such a sensory experience, especially visually, because you'll see chicken feet and such. But it doesn't bother me - I just observe and think - how interesting!
3) Waverly is really terrible but she seems like someone whose worth entirely came from external validation for being a chess genius. When she lost that, she seemed to lose her self-worth. I think it's a situation of "hurt people hurt people." She is terrible to others but I think she's broken inside and doesn't know how else to behave. She really really needs therapy. All of these characters do.
4) I have no idea how this is going to wrap up! But I am loving the journey!
I'll close by saying that rather than being incredibly appalled at the food descriptions, I was appalled by the accounting for expenses and income in Lena and Harold's marriage. Harold seems like the biggest a-hole. I get that Lena wanted to pay her way in the beginning (I also felt strongly about splitting checks when I was dating because I did not want to feel like I "owed" anyone anything. Similarly, I did not like having a drink bought for me because then I would feel like I had to talk to that person.) but that should evolve in a relationship. And the fact that she had to pay for ice cream she didn't ever eat really pissed me off since there were so many things she was personally responsible that he didn't allow her to consider a shared expense. And then the work dynamic! Gah! Get out of that marriage, Lena!