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| My notes |
Last week, J asked if people put this much work into a face-to-face book club. The answer, at least for my book club, is no. I'm lucky if people in my book club actually read the book, let alone look things up from it. They certainly don't prepare questions. BUT. It's a different vibe. I usually do prepare one or two questions just to get us talking about the book and then the conversation goes where it goes. It's different in an online space because the conversation is less likely to meander, although I like it when it does go places I don't expect when I read the chapters.
Anyway, my process for reading a CBBC book is basically the same as any other book for me, but a bit more extreme. I read with a pen in hand and mark down all the things on a piece of paper as I read - major plot points, character names/descriptions, lines of note, things I need to look up, hats. And then when I work on my post, I use these notes. Basically, if I miss something in my post, it's because it didn't make it into my notes!
I thought you just might like that little inside peek into my process.
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What were your overall thoughts on this book?
Here's what I think: This is not my jam. I do not understand human nature enough to have people just not say what they think. I think Archer was lame character to focus on.
However, I do feel like this book sets a tone that is hard to ignore. The claustrophobic feeling of how constrained choices were was palpable. You really get a feeling for elite New York in the 1870s. I also realllllly enjoyed Wharton's descriptions of the locations. You can tell that Wharton was a designer (remember how her first book was non-fiction work on design and architecture called The Decoration of Houses (1897) that she co-authored with Ogden Codman, Jr.? I feel like that background came shining through in The Age of Innocence.
But, I'll allow that I probably missed the point of this one. Stories of poor little rich people annoy me almost as much as stories of famous people complaining about being famous.
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Pop culture:
Last week, Jacquie wrote a comment about a movie adaptation of the novel.
This movie was a 1993 Martin Scorsese joint that earned Ryder earned an Academy Award nomination and a Golden Globe for her performance, as well as an Oscar for Best Costume Design.
Other adaptations include a 1934 film directed for RKO Studios by Philip Moeller, numerous stage adaptations, and an homage in an episode of Gossip Girl. There's also an upcoming period drama miniseries for Netflix based on the novel. The cast is led by Kristine Froseth, Ben Radcliffe, Camila Morrone, and Margo Martindale.
Diane turned me on to a book called
The Innocents by Francesca Segal that is a modern retelling of the novel. I will admit that the first Goodreads review made me snort.
Did I miss any other major nods in pop culture?
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TAoI questions to ponder:
As always, discuss as few or as many of these questions as you like.
1) Who is the innocent in this novel?
2) What role do minor characters – for instance Julius Beaufort, Mrs. Manson Mingott, the Van der Luydens, Newland’s mother and sister Janey – play in this novel?
3) Edith Wharton’s original title for The Age of Innocence was “Old New York.” Which title do you think is more fitting?
4) How are Ellen and May alike? How are they different?
5) Throughout the novel, Wharton references a number of artistic works—the opera Faust, the Cesnola Antiquities at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, Chippendale furniture in the Lannings’ home, to name a few. What role in the story do these references play?
6) Is it moral and honorable to protect others at the expense of one’s happiness? Is duty to one’s community more important than duty to oneself?
7) What scene from this book will stick with you? For me, it's pathetic Archer sitting on a park bench talking to himself in Paris.
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Most iconic line:
Typically I do a poll here, but I'm just going to ask you instead. What do you think the most iconic line from the book is?
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That's a wrap on winter 2026 CBBC! Thanks for joining and participating.
Archer is the innocent! The beginning sets it up as May, but by the end, we realize Archer had roses glasses on about everyone else. He thinks everyone is acting nicely if ignorantly- but by then end, he realizes they've all been working towards the same goal ( appearances and status quo preserved) and knowing his precious secret emotions for Ellen are read easily by them all. Even may, that pregnancy announcement, exposes her too. So he condemns himself, the weak soul that he is, to his marriage.
ReplyDeleteAt least he's not bitter about his kids having a better life.
The minor characters help expose the flaws of silociety. Regiba- marrying an outsider leads to her downfall, Mrs Mingott- how beauty is put above brains and character, Janey in society but the only (gawky) innocent besides Archer.( they didn't marry her off, now- she can't play the game right!). The writer friend- shows how bitter selling out your dreams for comfort can make you.
Glad I read it, won't pick it up again.
Wow. Archer as the innocent. Who would have guessed?
DeleteYou are making me realize Archer has more redeeming characteristics than I was giving him credit for. He did tell May the truth when he was supposed to tell Ellen about their engagement, but he didn't it. It doesn't seem like he's always a liar. And then he does seem to want what's best for his kids.
I love how you were always the first comment on these posts! Thanks for getting the conversations started. You're really pulling your weight in CBBC.
Thanks Engie for all your work on this! I'm sorry the last two books haven't been up your alley. Maybe the next one, you should just choose the book, one you like - I know that we will all follow along with your choice!
ReplyDeleteI am 100% only putting up books I've already read for CBBC in the future. I've learned my lesson! I still want people to vote because I feel like it gives people some agency, but I will have read all the books that up for the vote.
DeleteYou and I are two hearts beating as one with this one. All that I will remember is ending.
ReplyDeleteMy reference point for Faust is that it is the opera that is being performed in The Phantom of the Opera. I always assumed that the author used Faust to make a tie in with the story, but later on I read that the significance of Faust is only that it was the most popular opera at the time. So having Faust pop up in a story that is set in the 1880s is basically the same thing as when someone listens to a Madonna or Michael Jackson song in the 1980s - it's just a nod to the time and not otherwise significant.
I do love all the pop culture and design elements in the book. It's crazy because it was historical fiction at the time it was written, too!
DeleteI think there's another reason that Wharton chose Faust. Whittled away to its basics, it is a story about a man who makes an agreement with the devil in exchange for infinite knowledge and worldly pleasures. As is always the result of a deal with the devil, there is a catch, and Faust's is that he is trapped by his desires and, as is the usual bargain, damned (hence the term Faustian Bargain).
DeleteThe original character of Faust was much like Newland Archer, a well-read scholar who felt that he wasn't getting every bit of knowledge that he yearned for from his books. He wanted more, so he made a deal with the devil and gained the power of magic to be able to travel and also to summon the mythological beauty Helen of Troy for a romance. Later, of course, the devil must have his due, and Faust's life is destroyed. There are many variations of this basic story written by many authors. Wikipedia actually does a pretty good job of condensing them. The parallel is very clear here, and I think it's mistaken to believe that Wharton didn't do it intentionally.
Well, I love this book. I know you're raising your eyebrows at the word "love," but I've been thinking about the book all week. I quoted it last week, but the line that keeps coming back to me is "There were a hundred million tickets in his lottery, and there was only one prize; the chances had been too decidedly against him." It made me re-think my son's recent engagement- I had been feeling that they were too young and hadn't known each other long enough. But you know what? YOLO! Seize the day! Don't let something you want slip away from you.
ReplyDeleteInteresting question- who is the innocent in this novel? Definitely not Mae or Ellen, so that leaves Archer. I never really thought about the title and what it means, hmm! I like it better than Old New York.
As always, thank you for organizing our book club! You did a tremendous job, especially since you didn't care for the book.
YOLO indeed. My husband and I were just talking about that on a road trip yesterday. 3/4 of our parents died young. My dad died at 56 (and I'm 46!). If I want to go to a trampoline class, I'm going to do it! If I want to get a nose piercing, I'm going to do it (I'm planning on going with Bestest Friend next time we're together). Who knows how long you'll be around, you know?
DeleteI really liked this book! Was it a bit of a slog in places, yes!! But also, I stayed up too late one night reading it and that is the sign that I am hooked. I really felt like the characters were compelling in this tragic way. I can see why it won the Pulitzer.
ReplyDeleteI 100% get why some people would DNF this book, but it was a hit for me.
I agree with Nicole. Pick a book you love next time!!
I am definitely picking a book I at least LIKE next time. I have new rules for myself about CBBC now. Ha!
Delete