Friday, July 12, 2024

Five for Friday, Edition #7

 1) Collective nouns: I do some public speaking in my work role and I am Midwestern. I have intentionally steered away from "you guys" as a collective for the entire group and have replaced it with "friends" and now I say things like "okay, friends, let's get started." But this is dishonest. They are not my friends. I used to say "dudes," but I'm not in my 20s anymore (*sigh*) so I think it makes me sound like a tryhard even though I do use the word dude with reckless abandon in my private life AND I worry that it's just as gendered as "you guys." 

What word do you use in this situation? My husband, for his part, avoids any sort of address and recently said to me that outside of "you," he can't remember ever using a pronoun at work and I...don't understand how that's possible. When he addresses a class, he simply says "let's get started." I think he has more authority than I do, though, because he's a white man with a beard who looks and speaks authoritatively. 

2) Reality television and culture: There was a clip going around of Paris Hilton testifying before a Congressional committee. She's testifying about the dangers of youth residential treatment facilities in her role as a child welfare advocate, but she starts by complimenting the Congressperson's outfit and then she switches her tone from light and playful, discussing fashion, to serious, professional woman talking about serious, important matters.

I think some people are shocked by this. But, what are they shocked by? Sure, Paris Hilton is a Hilton and came from a position of privilege. But, like, a lot of that family money is not going to come to her and she has been a successful entrepreneur making billions of dollars on perfume, clothing, and accessories. She also makes boatloads of money in personal appearances and did you know that when she was DJing, she made up to $1 million an appearance? Sure, she had the Hilton name and the very big advantage of knowing that if she ever failed, she had a great big safety net, but the lady has done the work. She's a successful person. 

And, honestly, the same defense can be made of Kim Kardashian. Everyone seems to roll their eyes at her, but that woman is a businesswoman. You can be dismissive of the products she sells, but she managed to parlay notoriety from a sex tape/friendship with Paris Hilton to become a billionaire. 

I think reality television has a lot to answer for. The 2024 Republican presidential nominee as one huge thing to be answered for. But I reluctantly give props to said presidential nominee and people like Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian for figuring out a way to use their experiences on reality shows to create success in their lives outside of that milieu. I might have a lot of qualms with the things that they have done in both reality television and post-reality television (some of which is evil in one very specific case) and I can't deny that all of the examples I've given you had a leg up in terms of privilege, but they really have done the work.

I made this spirited defense, particularly talking about how since Kim Kardashian and Paris Hilton made their money in "feminine" enterprises like fashion they are looked down on as if they aren't "true" businesspeople, to some of my colleagues. They stared at me like I was crazy and started talking about what a negative impact they've had on the *culture* and how they are terrible role models. And, as I was watching that above clip of Paris Hilton, I kept thinking about how they are just examples of human beings with many sides to them, nuanced and complicated. 

But then it felt like perhaps I was mounting a defense of Donald Trump and backed away.

What do you think?

3) Glamor: In the fifth series of Taskmaster (some of you still haven't watched this show - this is an excellent season and it's perfectly fine if you start with this one), there was a contestant named Nish Kumar. He is a well-known UK comedian now, but was a bit less established when this series aired. He was TERRIBLE at the tasks and created a lot of hilarious moments. I think of him as a goofball.  

But there was a task that was filmed at a beach and the way they filmed Nish as he was walking to the task made him look glamorous and hot. See below. (If you do not think Nish is glamorous or attractive in this photo, you and I have different tastes about everything.)


I bring this up because my co-worker and I were recently leaving the building where our offices are to go to the student union to set up for an event. As we were doing so, a man wearing sunglasses and a well-fitting suit was walking into the building. I was immediately transported to this moment of Nish on the beach and my co-worker said, "doesn't he look glamorous?" and that's when I realized that the man in the sunglasses and well-fitting suit was my husband

4) Summertime: Because I have been in Work Mode, I haven't fully appreciated that it's SUMMER. Like, I just walk outside in a sundress and it's gorgeous. Yes, I have complaints about the rain and the heat, but forget my complaining. Look at campus!



I feel so badly for the landscapers that they work so hard on making our campus look gorgeous during the summer and there's hardly anyone here to appreciate it. I watched six young men just walk by this without appreciating just how lovely it is.

5) Homework: If you haven't already filled out the form to ask Dr. BB questions for an upcoming, please do so. This is the last time I'll pester you about it! If you haven't voted for a CBBC book, please vote! I'll tally up the votes on Monday, so if you haven't voted by then, your voice will not be heard. 

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Are you excited for summer or are you already over it? Have you voted in the CBBC poll?

47 comments:

  1. You could use " people" or "everyone" : Okay , people, let's get started. Everyone, time to start. I'm a teacher and I usually use "class", but that's probably not appropriate here.
    I agree with you that friends doesn't sound quite right. It's what elementary school children are told to use, or maybe ministers looking to give a sermon. (I'm in the Midwest and it does seem to be used by adults, but I don't like it. )

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    1. Oddly enough, I find "people" dehumanizing. LOL. I should just say everyone or everybody. I'll have to work on it.

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  2. Engie, I too have been steering myself away from "you guys," and if I'm writing a blog post, I use "friends" but if I'm talking in general I use "people." Okay people, let's go! I still occasionally slip and say you guys, but I am TRYING.
    You know what, I was just thinking of Kim Kardashian, and she has really taken her position and created a BRAND. Her Skims are so popular that *I* have been wondering if I need some. I mean, good for her and good for Paris, and it really infuriates me that women are dismissed for taking an interest in "feminine" things like outfits and makeup. We can enjoy those things AND be smart and serious. So I 100% back you up on this one. Also, I didn't know until relatively recently (like 2 years ago) about the whole residential behaviour schools, and I was horrified, so good for Paris for speaking out about it.
    Your campus is GORGEOUS, look at those flowers!

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    1. Yes, Kim and Paris have really done things with their advantages and I respect them. I don't know why that's controversial, but here we are...

      The campus is actually not that pretty (in terms of buildings, etc.), but the landscapers do such a good job with what they have! I am in awe of their work.

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  3. Sigh, this is a tricky one. I suspect that I say "guys" in this situation. I'm also a big fan of "dude". I saw "friends" on the blog a lot, but I don't think it's something that I say IRL. One pet peeve that I have is when people leave personal pronouns out of their writing. For example, most of my LinkedIn feed is "excited to share that blah blah did blah blah" instead of "I'm excited to share that blah blah blah".

    It's true that Paris, KK, and Trump came from privilege but so have a lot of people who haven't achieved one tenth of one percent of what they did. Now look I'd prefer it if Trump had gone the rich kid route and never worked a day in his life, but that's another discussion for another day.

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    1. Yeah, I mean I have a lot of conflicted feelings about what reality television has wrought (*huge sigh* U.S. democracy in peril), but they've done the work. I feel like we need to acknowledge that.

      I didn't know people were leaving out personal pronouns. I do sort of think English is moving to a pronoun-less language. It would be interesting to know if they're still around in a hundred years.

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  4. 1. In the Olde Dayes I used to use Ladies and Gentlemen. I often defaulted to Everyone. In my classroom, I used to goof around and use random nouns like, "All right, Hearts and Flowers" or "Okay, Chickens and Bunnies." Those would not be appropriate, obviously.
    2. I don't have a problem with famous women who actually do the work becoming successful in a different field. I guess I will forever have a problem with the K family because they became famous in such a shallow, vapid way that says the absolute worst about American culture.
    3. I get it; I have a thing for Dev Patel. But I have to laugh that you didn't recognize your own husband.
    4. Your campus is gorgeous! Landscapers are vastly underappreciated, I think; especially those who do their work in public spaces.
    5. Related: I just read in the NYT that a big bunch of writers voted My Brilliant Friend #1 on their list of the 100 Best Books list (or something). I gagged and rolled my eyes and pretty much almost cancelled my subscription all at the same time whilst becoming completely disenchanted about Writers In General. And no, I am not changing my mind. They are all on drugs/wrong/senile/stupid.

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    1. Ha! Hearts and flowers! That's awesome.

      I guess I don't see Kim Kardashian's business, including the reality show, as vapid. It's not necessarily my cup of tea, but it's a capitalistic world.

      My Brilliant Friend is great! I mean, maybe not #1, but it's great!

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  5. I dislike saying "you guys" so I either say friends or kids or y'all because I'm close enough to the South to get away with it. Plus it's fun to say y'all.

    The photos of your campus are beautiful. So many sunflowers, a flower I love but can't grow. Happy Weekend!

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    1. I cannot get away with "y'all" and I don't like to call anyone kids. LOL. I'm so picky.

      Our landscapers deserve gold medals for all their hard work!

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  6. I'm trying to get away from "you guys" as well; I mostly go with y'all. Not that I'm southern, but I lived in NC for 8 years and heard it enough to feel like it works as a gender-neutral group term.

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    1. I just don't think Midwesterners can get away with "y'all." I sounds mocking when I use it. But I think this is very geography dependent.

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  7. I most often say "everybody." I'm Southern enough to say "you all" un-self-consciously, and I think "you all" is maybe more generalizable outside the South than "y'all" (i.e., what do you all think?). I also use "folks" (i.e., okay, folks, let's get started).

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    1. I actually used to use folks and I switched away from it because it seemed like it was a bit too informal. That being said, I'm considering using "dudes," so maybe informality isn't an issue for me anymore!! I think "you all" sounds like I'm mocking "y'all," but I admire everyone who can use those terms without it sounding bad.

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  8. For the first point- I'd probably say "Okay everyone, let's get started." But I also wouldn't be offended if someone said "you guys." I would definitely snicker a little if they said "dudes." Although actually... not really. I think you could get away with almost anything and most people wouldn't even notice.
    I don't really have an opinion on Paris or Kim- I know, what is wrong with me. I'm just kind of oblivious to these things. I DO have opinions on Donald Trump (I know, that's a shocker!) I actually liked him on The Apprentice- and there, he should have stayed.
    How cool is it that, in the moment where you didn't recognize your husband, you associated him with someone "glamorous and hot"!
    I did vote for the book club!

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    1. You're right - everybody or everyone is probably what I should switch to.

      I was so amused at myself for not really knowing it was my own husband. I just wasn't expecting him at that moment!

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  9. Just did my HW re. the Dr. BB form; I believe I already completed the CBBC poll.
    Re. #1 I usually use "people" or "folx." But I think "friends" is sweet too--it's full of possibility in a Quaker/Cosmopolitanism way.
    I benefit from summer's bounty on MSU's excellent landscaping too--I too have feelings about how most students miss the most beautiful months on campus.

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    1. Yeah, maybe I should return to folks. Friends just seems disingenuous.

      We should all make a point to visit college campuses during the summer - it's when they're at their most glorious.

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  10. So many thoughts on a Friday morning!
    1) I think about this a lot, too, because we used to say "Ladies and gentlemen" in rehearsal a lot, when talking to a large group of people onstage, but we don't anymore. If I can't refer to them by their category (Chorus, dancers, principals, etc.), usually I'll say "Friends" or "folks" or "Everyone" or "All" or "People" or "[Show name] Company", but I've also been with my company long enough that I can be slightly familiar with them. I knew a stage manager who would say, "Friends in the arts" which I found kind of elegant and clunky at the same time. Oh I also knew one who would say, "Friend of the [group name]" so if we were talking to the chorus she would say, "Friends of the Chorus". Only it sounded like she was talking literally about people who were friends of people in the chorus, not friends who were IN the chorus.
    2) I think of this a lot too, particularly about Jessica Simpson. I know she started from a good place being an attractive white female, and she probably has a lot of support, but I don't think she could have gotten where she was without being really quite smart, despite what is portrayed in the media. Knowing how to navigate and profit from the system and society you're in - You can't be stupid and be successful at doing that. I'm sure there's a lot to unpack as to why someone like Trump (male) can move from reality tv to Washington, DC, but it is more difficult for someone like Hilton (female) to do it without raising eyebrows or getting smacked down.
    3 &5) Now I *really* can't wait for a guest post by your husband who wears well fitted suits and sunglasses and is probably a nice tall drink of water in a desert.
    4) Those sunflowers! So beautiful! I hope I'm having an okay summer. It's hard to tell right now because it is so so so so hot and I just want to kind of be a slug all day, but I know that makes me cranky.

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    1. Also - did you see - My Brilliant Friend is the top of the NYTimes Best 100 Books of the 21st Century list. Makes me feel like I really don't get it. Or maybe I'm not the correct demographic for that list.

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    2. Friends of the Chorus does make it seem like neighbors and whatnot. LOL. How confusing we have to be to make English gender-neutral.

      Jessica Simpson is a good example of someone parlaying reality tv into something else. Although, was she a singer before the reality show? I don't know a lot about her career trajectory. It honestly seems like there was a certain generation in which reality tv was a mandatory part of a career!

      Nance mentioned the My Brilliant Friend thing above. I am glad I'm not alone in adoring that book and the complicated feelings in female friendships. There were a lot of haters in our book club, but I am not one of them!

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  11. I think I use "everyone." I try not to say "guys" or "you guys". And I cannot bring myself to say 'you all' because it's southern and I still have PTSD from my leave living in NC (no offense to people who live there - it was just not for me).

    Your campus is so beautiful! I was only on my college campus for one summer and felt it was a shame that most students don't see the campus when it's at its peak in terms of beauty!

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    1. All college campuses shine in the summer. It's such a shame that so few people see them!

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  12. As part of my job, I've been having a lot of conversations about "you guys" and "guys" lately... I personally don't use "friends" because it seems weird with the hierarchy I work with and have been feeling my way through "hello folks", "hello people", "what's up, colleagues?", "hi all, let's get started", etc. It's honestly sent me in a bit of a tailspin because as one of the Goonies generation, "hey you guys!!" is something that I just say without thinking...

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    1. Hey, guys, let's get started is SO NATURAL. But folks, friends, and dudes sound informal or folksy, so I don't love those. But maybe that's fine. I mean, I think the answer is to just say all, everyone, or everybody. But it is hard to break the guys habit. But I'm determined to break it! Down with the patriarchy!

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  13. I have a hard time not using "guys" when trying to get a class's attention also. I have no qualms about using "friends" - I do it all the time in French - "les amis", and it feels more natural. Much of common conversation has small dishonesties, and I don't feel the need to be scrupulous about accuracy, especially when it's in the cause of gender-neutral language.
    I don't deny that Kim Kardashian and Paris Hilton have done some work. For me it's just - especially for KK - the notion that the work they have done is instrumental in their success, when it's absolutely their privilege that opened every door. Sure, they might take some meetings and approve some designs or whatever, but in the way that if you have money, it's fairly easy to make that money into more money. For someone like that to say 'no one else wants to work' and act like they're in any way self-made is spuriously tone-deaf and dishonest, in my opinion. I do agree, however, that as women they get condemned more than men in the same position, and I don't agree that they have to be role models.
    I have been out of touch and will now look at the questions and the book vote.

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    1. "Much of common conversation has small dishonesties, and I don't feel the need to be scrupulous about accuracy, especially when it's in the cause of gender-neutral language." YES!! This is a helpful reframe for me.

      I don't know if I agree about KK. Generational wealth is not easy to maintain and she's grown her family's money. I don't love that she felt like as a young woman her only way into the spotlight was through a sex tape, but that says something negative about society and culture, not how smart she was to take advantage of it!

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  14. I use You Guys as well, but more than anything, I say ya'll. It my southern go-to.I suppose in a formal gathering, I would say 'Hello Everyone'

    People gain success in a myriad of ways, whether we have respect for those ways isn't really up to us. I think if the opportunity arrises, you must be smart enough to grab it an do what you can. So many are born into privilege and do nothing with it.

    I appreciate the gardens of your campus. Lovely!

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    1. Yes, everyone is probably the right answer. But I might keep going with friends because Allison said much of common conversation has small dishonesties and now that's my new mantra.

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  15. I'd love to be able to get away with y'all and say it occasionally on the blog (mostly when I was planning to say "you guys") but I tend toward "All" in e-mail communications - as in: Hello All, or and "Everyone" if I was speaking in person. They're impersonal, but gets the job done for a mixed-gender group.
    Using the word "friends" like someone else (Birchie?) mentioned above is usually only how I address things on my blog and I don't tend to say that to a group of people IRL (even if they are all my friends!).

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    1. I love how some people think very hard about how to address large groups of people and how other people never think about it. I feel like I should probably think about it less and just do what comes naturally.

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  16. A high school teacher. I use "clase" and, for a class who is not mine (i.e. study hall/supervision) I use "folks" :) They probably are rolling their eyes at me lol I don't mind. Also, everyone as someone else already said.

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    1. I've used folks in the past. I feel like it's one step away from y'all, though, and I'm not sure I can get away with it as easily as others might.

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  17. I know nothing of Hilton or Kardashian except that they exist, and now I also know that they are very rich. Would 'people' or 'folk(s)' do for addressing groups?

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    1. I don't like people at all. It's somehow dehumanizing. I've used folks in the past, but it does seem somehow too folksy in many settings. I've really thought on this question far more than I probably should have!

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  18. I'm excited for this coming week of summer, because I do not believe it will hit 100 even once. The last week and a half have been miserable. Otherwise, we have no summer plans this year, so it's just like any other time of year except hot. I claim to not like reality TV, but my daughter turned on the new season of Bachelorette last night, and I watched it with her. I agree with you that Hilton and Kardashian are successful business people, though I suspect anyone with a will could be, given that much money. They can hire whomever they want to learn from. Perhaps they have some instinct for it as well, I don't know.

    You know, now that Trump can't be prosecuted for his crimes in office, he should give up trying to destroy our country, and have a new TV show. He could do celebrity gossip and make fun of everyone. I wouldn't watch, but I'm sure a lot of people would.

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    1. I honestly don't know if everyone who had their head start in life are as successful as PH and KK. Paris Hilton has two brothers and they're not nearly as successful! I am defining success in terms of money here, which is not the best barometer, but I do think it's unfair to suggest that just because your parents have a quality, you will have it. I mean, it is lovely that they both had safety nets to depend on and that certainly is helpful, but I don't think it's determinative.

      If only Trump would go back to reality tv and stay there.

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  19. The pronouns issue is an interesting one! I will use "friends" when addressing our department at work, but we're pretty informal. Otherwise, I'd probably just say "everyone" or try not to use anything at all. I think "everyone" or "folks" is a good option for you!

    I am TICKLED by the idea that you saw a hot guy on campus and realized it was your husband. He's still got it! ;)

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    1. That scene with my husband was hysterical to me. Such a good-looking guy! I should write a post about how my husband has entirely changed what I think is attractive in a human being. LOL

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  20. I am like your husband and construct entrances to avoid it altogether. Folks sounds not OK in my mouth.

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    1. Yes! Folks and y'all do not work for midwesterners. It's just too...informal, I think.

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  21. SENTENCES, but entrances works, too, I guess.

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  22. Have you ever seen Paris Hilton's documentary on YouTube? She describes her experience in great detail. It's actually a really good documentary.

    Are those sunflowers in that flower bed?? I LOVE THAT SO MUCH!!!

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    1. I haven't seen the doc, but if I ever have time to watch it, I will.

      They appear to be sunflowers to me! I'll be interested in how tall they get.

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  23. I always thought of "you guys" as neutral... it's a phrase that took me - as a non-native speaker - a long time to adopt and use freely without feeling "odd" saying it... but I see the "dilemma". I think I'd lean towards using "everyone" when addressing a group. With my close work colleagues we use "peeps", but I don't think that's appropriate for a group of people you don't know. I also use "friends" on the blog, but that's because I consider you guys my friends (<--- hahaha).

    I don't deny that people like Paris Hilton or Kim Kardashian work hard... but I think the leg up that they have in life (financially and by name recognition) made it REALLY easy to pursue the things they wanted to pursue and to find people who are interested in buying their products and be successful. It's a lot harder for regular people.

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    1. I think I'll probably keep using friends. I mean, it's a tiny bit disingenuous, but as Allison pointed out upthread, that's not unusual in everyday conversation.

      I don't disagree that it was easier for KK and PH. I just think they don't get recognized nearly enough for how hard they do work and get blown off a lot. I just don't like that tendency to think they didn't earn anything.

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  24. Everyone. I use it in all my announcements, etc. I will also go with "Good morning! How are you all today?" "You all" works better in my non-native-Midwesterner-but-still-kind-of-Midwesty brain. ;)

    And yes, your campus is GORGEOUS. Our grounds are overgrown and...blah. :P

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