Welcome to the second week of our Cool Bloggers Book Club (CBBC) on My Brilliant Friend by Elena Ferrante. This week we're focusing on the second quarter of the book, Chapters 1-16 in the Adolescence section.
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Last's week's homework assignment: Last week I asked everyone to send me a photo of their book/reading spaces for a collage. You'll see several collage throughout this post. Thanks to everyone who sent in a photo! If you didn't get yours in this week, feel free to send one along for next week.
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| Top: Sarah wants us all to know that Thriftbooks has some deals, Stephany wants you to find BOTH of her cats in this photo; Bottom: San's duvet looks a lot like mine, and we need to count how many books Suzanne has in her photo |
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What happened in these chapters?
The girls start to grow up. Lila isn't in school, Lenù is not doing well in school. Lila starts working at her father's shoe store, Lenù is showing her new breasts to boys for money. No one talks to these girls about what to expect from puberty and they discuss starting menstruation amongst themselves. Eventually, with the help of some tutoring from Lila who has been studying on her own, Lenù gets her act together and starts being successful in school.
But, really, this is about boys. Pasquale, Enzo, those no-good troublesome Solara boys, and Lila's brother Gino are all in the mix. There's random violence (what did the Solara boys do with Ada?), unwritten rules of etiquette that no one really understands because the adults didn't warn the girls about their periods, how are the girls supposed to know what's going on with who they can and cannot talk to or dance with, and Lenù finally gets to see Naples outside of her squalid neighborhood.
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| Top: Melissa who has a copy with a tv show cover!, Maya who has the coziest, brightest space; Bottom: Kyria who was the first to email me - let's give her gold stars for not procrastinating, and Lindsay whose pillow looks a lot like my couch pillows |
Hat mentions (why hats?):
And now he was on the construction site near the railroad and we sometimes saw him climbing up the scaffolding of the new buildings that were rising floor by floor, or in a hat made of newspaper, in the sun, eating bread with sausage and greens during his lunch break. (page 109-110)
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This week's homework assignment: Scavenger hunt! I want you all to pick a word that you're going to look for in next week's reading. I do this with the word "hat." Pick a common word and see how often it appears in the text - e.g., dog, orange, skirt, table, vault, etc. - and then report back next week. Bonus points if you tell us in the comments this week what your word will be. I call the word hat.
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| Top: My audiobook and my reading setup, complete with cat, couch, scarf, pen for taking notes, and Craft hat; Bottom: Nicole's setup and the super handsome and happy Rex. |
Lines of note:
I basically noted lines about puberty and Lila and Lenù's relationship this week.
On growing up:
One afternoon I really fell asleep and when I woke I felt wet. I went to the bathroom to see what was wrong and discovered that my underpants were stained with blood. Terrified by I don't know what...(page 93)
Oh, poor thing. I can't believe no one warned her!
I got fat, and under the skin of my chest two hard shoots sprouted, hair flourished in y armpits and my pubis, I became sad and at the same time anxious...I cried often, without warning. My chest, meanwhile, became large and soft. I felt at the mercy of obscure forces acting inside my body, I was always agitated. (page 96)
The line "at the mercy of obscure forces acting inside my body" really hit home. It feels like just when you've got your body figured out, there's a new change.
My mother said that I was indecent with those big breasts I had developed, and she took me to buy a bra. She was more abrupt than usual. She seemed ashamed that I had a bosom, that I got my period. The crude instructions she gave me were rapid and insufficient, barely muttered. (page 102)
I just can't with this parenting. Lenù's mother is making Katie Nolan look like a saint.
...I expanded like pizza dough. I became fuller in the chest, the thighs, the rear. (page 112)
What an image. Pizza dough indeed. I still have stretch marks on my thighs from puberty.
...I would slowly feel that the novels I read were pointless and that my life would bleak, along with the future, and what I would become: a fat pimply salesclerk in the stationery store across from the parish church, on old maid employee of the local government, sooner or later cross-eyed and lame. (page 121)
When I was younger, I used to joking say that I would move to Nebraska and work at a Payless Shoes if all went wrong in my life. I think of the stationery store as equivalent to my Payless plan.
Was it possible that only our neighborhood was filled with conflicts and violence, while the rest of the city was radiant, benevolent? (page 137)
When I was a young teen, I really thought anywhere would be better than my home and my small town. The writing in this book is just so evocative of a time.
...Ada, Carmela, and I myself - especially after the incident with the Solaras - had learned instinctively to lower our eyes, pretend not to hear the obscenities they directed at us, and keep going. (page 145)
Oh, man. The number of times I did this when men would shout at me when I lived in Minneapolis. Ferrante's observations are so keen and universal.
On the relationship between Lila and Lenù:
I soon had to admit that what I did by myself couldn't excite me, only what Lila touched became important. (page 100)
No one understood us, only we two - I thought - understood one another. (page 106)
I realized that with those last words she had admitted that I was important to her, and I was happy. (page 119)
Would she always do the things I was supposed to do, before and better than me? (page 142)
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| Why does the Europa edition have this terrible cover, I ask you? On the left, we have Jules and her awesome bookmark that she wrote the schedule on; on the right we have Diane who leaves her book all over the house, including in the bathroom, and Jacquie who doesn't have a blog, but is obviously a public library user, so obviously is welcome at all our CBBC events |
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Things I looked up:
lupini (page 134) - a type of beans that are members of the pea family - my friends, I have got to learn more about international cuisine is the lesson from these chapters
mazurka (page 140) - Polish folk dance in triple meter, usually at a lively tempo
Albergo dei Poveri (page 137) - apparently a landmark building in Naples - also, I literally know nothing about Naples - built from tufo (last week's thing I looked up!) and brick, it's the second largest public building in Europe
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| Source |
Maschio Angioini (page 137) - Also called Castel Nuovo, a medieval castle in central Naples first erected in 1279 - can you even imagine a building this old?
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| Little john at Italian Wikipedia, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons |
Castel dell'Ovo (page 138) - Seafront castle in Naples, the oldest castle in Naples (!)
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| Source |
"acting the grandee" (page 146) - grandee is a nobleman of highest rank in Spain and Portugal
cassata (page 147) - Traditional Sicilian cake made of a round sponge cake moistened with fruit juices or liqueur and layered with ricotta cheese and candied fruit. It has a marzipan shell, pink and green colored icing, and decorative designs. It sounds and looks repulsive to me, but I bet I'd eat it if you put it in front of me.
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| By fugzu - Flickr: cassata siciliana, CC BY 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=12851843 |
sfogliatelle (page 147) - Sometimes called a lobster tail in the U.S., it's a puff pastry with a shell or lobster tail shape
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| Top: Anne listens to her audiobook on her awesome couch; Bottom: Jenny covers up poor Muffin who should be the star of the show, Birchie is reading it on a Kindle while Doggo sits on her feet (I made the part up about Doggo, but I assume it's true) |
Questions to ponder
1) What's up with these girls? Why does Lenù want Lila's attention so much? Is Lila a narcissist or a psychopath?
2) How much do we believe the facts as presented here? Is Lenù such an unreliable narrator that we can't trust the things that are happening?
3) Let's talk books! Little Women keeps coming up as a book the two of them read together and separately. Lenù is so impressed that Donato Sarratore wrote a book of poetry and had it published. What is the significance of all this to the story? (So many parallels to Francie and her library trips and her Walt Whitman love here.)
4) What's your scavenger hunt word for next week's homework?!
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Upcoming CBBC schedule:
Monday, February 19
Adolescence, Chapters 17-30 (pages 153-212 of the paperback Europa edition, up to location 2761 on a Kindle, timestamp 5:21:06-7:37:34 on audiobook)
Monday, February 26
Adolescence, Chapters 31-45 (pages 212-270 of the paperback Europa edition, up to location 3575 on a Kindle, timestamp 7:37:34 - 10:06:54 on audiobook)
Monday, March 4
Adolescence, Chapters 46-62 (pages 270-331 of the paperback Europa edition, timestamp 10:06:54-end on audiobook)
Monday, March 11
Wrap up!
I didn't love these chapters, I found it just so sad that the beginning of adolescence was so fraught for Lenu. Body changes, her period that no one tells her about, all the scary attention from boys. I guess it shows that adolescence is hard on girls, and always has been. I don't think that Lila is a psychopath or a narcissist, just a girl who wants to go places but can't. She's stuck.
ReplyDeleteI loved that the girls love Little Women as it's one of my favourite books of all time!
Nicole that detail about Little Women struck me too because I remember reading Little Women as a girl in India. This detail opened up for me how it is a novel with universal appeal across the world.
DeleteI think of adolescence as hard, but maybe even harder in post-war Italy? I don't know. The gender relations seem entrenched and deeply misogynistic in a way that is different from today (hopefully even today in Italy?). I think the mentions of Little Women are interesting because there are so few men in those books - mostly just the girls and Marmee (let's ignore Laurie, shall we?).
DeleteI agree with Nicole; these chapters were hard to read. Her showing her breasts to the guys for money was just uncomfortable, but she was so proud to have channeled her inner Lila. I don't really like Lila, but I guess everybody needs a more brazen friend to show them how to have confidence. Re nobody telling her about her period, that seems to be a theme! I don't know if you have read Go As A River, but the main character in that also starts her period (in a house full of men) and is not quite sure what to do about it. Does this really happen that often!?
ReplyDeleteLupini beans are the best. If you ever get a chance to try them, you should! I have actually had them as an appetizer and you eat them one at a time, like peanuts. So good!
I am going to choose "black" as my word! It will be a little harder to count on audio, but I am going to do my best!!
YES! The scene where she shows her breasts to the boys is so uncomfortable. And it's weird to me because this is Adult Elena retelling the story and she doesn't reflect much on how that experience made her feel.
DeleteI actually missed the hat reference when I read the chapters this time around and only caught it when I was listening to the audiobook, so I think you will catch it if black appears!
I am with Nicole and Kyria. These chapters were hard for me. Listening, what struck me was how Lenu's experiences could be universal, in many ways. Puberty is such a disruptive developmental stage, often starting with little warning, and leading to physical, emotional, and social changes that are so hard to navigate. Lenu certainly seems envious of Lila's physical appearance, compared to hers (the passages about how, well, unattractive and ugly she found herself were so sad, to me). And her shock at waking up with blood on her underwear, oh, that resonated with me. Not to go TMI here, but let's just say the first time I got my period it was not what I expected it to be.
ReplyDeleteI am glad that I didn't miss something with Ada and the Solaro boys. I listened to that section 3 times to make sure I wasn't hearing it wrong. So odd - maybe we'll learn more later?
I have NO IDEA what my word will be. I shall report back later with what I choose. :)
I think the combo of how hard puberty is PLUS the innate violence of the neighborhood is definitely what made this so hard to read. It's a universal experience for women in a very specific context and that makes it powerful writing, I think.
DeleteYeah, the Ada part with the Solaros was confusing. Do you think they just drove around or something more nefarious happened?
These chapters felt so distracted. I think that the memoirist crams too many people into this book that don't really need to be here anyway and then, on top of it, reassigns them names (Carmela, now Carmen). I felt bombarded and continued to feel as if I couldn't really care all that much about what Elena was experiencing.
ReplyDeleteWhat she does experience mostly seems to be Envy of Lina. Lina is that friend to whom everything comes effortlessly: beauty, intelligence, passion, male attention. And then, to top it all off, she doesn't care. She's focused on her own goals and life situation. It's tough to be the Awkward/Ugly Friend in the shadow, especially if you find yourself desperate for the light and approval of the friend you admire.
As far as Elena's first period experience, I don't think it's that uncommon. In our elementary school, the sixth grade girls were herded into the auditorium to watch a public health film about it. Mothers were invited, but mine didn't come. A few days later, I found several booklets on the steps leading up to my bedroom. They had titles like "Now You Are 10!" and "Your Changing Body". I took them up to my room and read them. A few days later my mother asked if I found them and read them and if I had any questions. I said that I had, and that I didn't. That was the full extent of it. Three years later, I had my first period and didn't even tell her.
As far as Elena being impressed with the local poet, who wouldn't be? She wants to be a writer, and he is proof that it's possible. Someone in her dirty, violent town made something of himself, and he did it by writing poetry, a beautiful, imaginative art form. She contrasts that with Lina, whose aspiration is to make...A Shoe. She can't believe the two even compare.
My husband's #1 complaint about the book is that it has too many characters and they all have a lot of nicknames. I guess I don't get too stuck on that and spend more time just letting the setting wash over me.
DeleteI think most of the girls in my class had already started their periods by sixth grade, so that would have been too late for a lot of us! I had a mother and an older sister, so I knew what was up, but even if you know intellectually what's going to happen, it's not always clear how that applies in "real life."
Oh, but Nance, your last paragraph is so telling about your own values! I would definitely be more impressed with someone with the knowhow and skills to make a shoe from scratch than someone who could write a book of what I can only imagine is bad poetry! They are both creative endeavors, to be sure, but one is more cerebral and the other has a more physical component.
NGS--Perhaps I misled you with the perspective of my last paragraph, which I intended to be Elena's perspective on the book written by the local person and why she was so impressed. I wasn't making a personal commentary. I come from a rich family history of craftspeople, and while I do place a high value on writing, I certainly don't discount the artistry of skilled craftsmanship in any trade or pursuit. So, it's not indicative of my own values in any way.
DeletePerhaps the thing with all the extraneous character stuffing is the writer/writing teacher/editor in me. I find it bothersome and lazy. Anyone can write a sort of diary wherein they simply record every little thing and every person who was there, etc. It takes a finer sensibility to know who and what is important and central to the story. The reader shouldn't have to do the writer's job for her.
Nance-YES, so many characters and the names seem to be fluid.
DeleteI remember there was a big meeting in our lunchroom in fifth grade. Our parents had to sign a slip saying that you could attend; sadly I was sick the day of and never had the talk with anyone. My teacher saved the little booklet for me and I'm not going to lie, I still have it. *sigh* Why? I don't know! Anyhoo, no one ever gave me the talk about periods or sex; luckily I figured it all out.
Nance, your first paragraph is spot on. I already feel distracted and not fully committed due to the amount of characters (and different names) and I am sure the trend will continue throughout the book! It kind of reminds me of my Grandfather's stories, which used to drone on and on! It's like they want to pay homage to everyone they ever encountered but as a listener, it gets to be a bit too much!
DeleteI think these chapters really captured the turbulence of adolescence. Adolescence is so hard even when you have loving adults to guide you- can you imagine how hard it was for these girls?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Nicole that Lila is not a narcissist or psychopath. I think she's probably a uniquely intelligent and driven girl- and girls that age are not always nice to each other. We'll see if my opinion changes as the story goes on.
As far as there being too many characters- in some of the scenes where there are a lot of characters and a lot is happening, I don't get too bogged down in trying to remember exactly who is who- I just read it and let the chaos of the scene wash over me (like at the dance when Lila danced with the Solara brother). Kind of the way I would experience it if I were actually there.
I agree these chapters weren't as much fun to read as when they were children- but that's because adolescence is so hard. I don't have fond memories of it and it's hard to read about Lenu going through it. But I'm enjoying the book! It's interesting that my husband enjoyed it so much- he doesn't actually read a lot but he loved this book (and he has the second one.) It seems like more of a girls book to me.
Okay, my word for this week's reading is "cup."
I am interested in your husband's enjoyment of the book, too. My husband has read it and he has some quibbles with it, but I think he also likes the look at female relationships, which is not something he commonly reads about and I think he found it fascinating. Lots of questions from him about "is this what girls are really like?" and it's hard to answer!
DeleteFull disclosure - I read these chapters and I already remember almost nothing from them. This story isn't memorable to me. I'm finding it hard to feel invested in the characters. I'm not sure if I need to read the whole book through and then come back and re-read each section on a week-by-week basis?
ReplyDeleteI think, too, it just very sad. I felt the same way about ATGIB, though. These girls are just experiencing so much loss, pain, and confusion and it makes my heart hurt. But I guess that is real life along a spectrum of hardships (some people really do get exposed to such horrible violence and parental harm).
I am finding this way harder to read than ATGIB! I guess it's because while I thought Johnny and Katie were sort of bad at parenting, they did care. But Lenu's parents seem to be just completely removed from her life and that's hard to think about, especially in an environment as hard as their neighborhood.
DeleteTrue confessions - me, too. I'm finding this REALLY hard to read, and not enjoying it as much as I hoped. I am hoping it's just these chapters? And that it will maybe improve? But the Adolescence section is so long... Anyway, just to let the 2 of you know that I am struggling, too.
DeleteHi, Elisabeth and Anne--I'm glad I'm not alone. I'm struggling with this book mightily. I find I'm not enjoying anything about it. I keep wondering why it got such rave reviews by some. I guess I know how a lot of my students felt when they were reading required books for my classes that they just couldn't find a way to enjoy, but they kept reading and kept trying.
DeleteFor me, a lot of it has to do with the writing style, which seems stiff and blabby. Just like sitting down with an old lady who is rambling about people you don't know and you can't get away from her. LOL
Ha! I agree! Nance, it's funny you mention the old lady, as I just commented above on your comment and mentioned my Grandfather, who I feel just like that about! You can't get away!
DeleteI am glad I am not alone. I did try reading it a couple yeahs ago and the character did nothing for me. I dnfed shortly after these chapters.
Delete1 “What is up with these girls?” was my leading thought for this chunk of the book. Oof. The writing itself very much felt like a hormonal explosion; the leaps from friendship to obsession to despair to the bleak violence was a bit all over the place. I don’t know if it is the translation or just the style of it, but I felt dragged around reading it. It was exhausting!
ReplyDelete2 I don’t think we can trust Elena’s take on things. I think the reader is set up when the book starts to believe she is the reliable one while Lila is the one who is impulsive and disappeared, but the more you read from Elena’s perception the more unreliable she is. Her wants and motivations are shaped by her evolving connection to Lila (but we never hear FROM Lila – this is all from Elena’s perspective)… Do we even really know Lila at all?
3 I feel like this is a twisted connection to Little Women; it’s not that Elena wants to be like Jo and write a book (that pull of being self-sufficient and independent and owning your creativity) – she wants to write WITH Lila. It’s this weird mix of the intense connection the March sisters had coupled with hormones and violence and the weird cadence of their “friendship”… Elena could write on her own (study on her own, etc.) but instead waits…
4 I think I am going to choose “violence” because it gives me a little jump each time I see it in the book.
I am fascinated by the perspective in this book. It's purportedly Elena writing her reflections as an adult, but she doesn't do a lot of reflecting, does she? I think this is something I'm going to explore in the next bunch of chapters.
DeleteOooohhh...the words violence and black have been chosen already. Interesting about what readers are getting out of this book!
Oh snap - I should have read back through to see what folks are doing. Hmmm... I can do "lie" (oops, that is equally as dark) (I didn't expect this to be such a bleak read!!).
DeleteOh, no! You were the one who chose violence. Use that one!
DeleteThe writing style doesn’t really draw me in. I don’t know exactly how to describe it, blunt for lack of a better word. I don’t like flowery language, but I feel like it’s missing warmth. I wonder if it has anything to do with the translation from Italian to English.
ReplyDeleteWhat I do like though, is how the author creates a mood and feel. This statement is somewhat contradictory to what I just said above, but there are moments where to me she captures the experience and the impact it has on the characters well. I felt this when Lenu went to Naples for the first time. The city was wide and expansive compared to the small town she grew up in. The confusion and comparison the girls feel as they enter adolescence.
Considering the year, 1959, it does not surprise me the girls would not be well informed about menstruation. I feel the relationship between the children and parents is “normal” for that time period. While it may seem harsh, the dialogue that goes on between parents and children today did not happen back then.
I am probably in the minority where Little Women is concerned. I’ve read the book twice, once as a child, then as an adult, watched the movies with Winona Ryder and Saiorse Ronan and despite having two sisters that I am very close to, I find it boring. It just doesn’t resonate with me, and I am fine with that.
Despite the less than engaging writing style, I’m not finding it hard to read and am invested in these two girls and want to see where their relation goes. My word is “school” because I hope that Lenu continues with her education.
Jacquie! I was thinking some of the same things re: translation. If there was a second translation, I would be all over reading it.
DeleteI loved Little Women when I was a child, but I tried to read it as an adult and boy did I find it an unpleasant experience. I do think it's sort of a beloved childhood classic, though, and feel sort of terrible that I don't want to revisit it.
The descriptions of adolescence in these chapters is so vivid and awful. That quote you pulled, Engie, from page 96 seemed like such a perfect description of the mental and physical confusion of puberty.
ReplyDeleteI am so perplexed by the perspective of this book. Elena is an adult, recounting these experiences from her childhood... and yet it's hard to see that she is doing anything but reporting them. There's no musing about her/Lila's motivations or revelations she's undergone while revisiting her memories. Is that intentional -- are we to see these more as literal flashbacks rather than reflections on her past? If the former, it's hard to know just how accurate Elena's viewpoint is! We get only her impressions and have to take her word for everything and that's such a narrow way to look at this world.
I loved that Lila checks out books for her whole family -- the part where she won so many prizes for being such a prolific reader was delightful.
The relationship between Lena and Lila fascinates me. I am really eager to find out how it evolves. When I read the beginning of the book, I got the sense that Lena was pretty nonchalant about Lila's disappearance... but HOW did she reach that point? Because it seems like Lena cannot exist -- or at least cannot reach her full potential -- without Lila to drive her. Looking forward to the next section!
My word is door. Hopefully I will remember to look for it!
I am curious about the perspective, too! There's a lot of showing of emotions (and then all the girls were crying!), but not really reflecting on the reasons behind it. It seems weird that someone talking about their history wouldn't occasionally say something about how a certain behavior happened repeatedly or how one thing led to another. It's all very fact-based.
DeleteDoor! Such an interesting word. I can't wait to find out if it appears.
Hi, Suzanne--I agree with you and Jacquie above about the lack of warmth and the mere reporting of events in the book. I think Engie opined earlier that perhaps it was due to the fact that it was translated. I don't know. But you're right--it's lacking any sort of reflection and interpretation or musing on the part of Elena, and that's why it's failing to draw some of us in and feels so cold and impersonal despite some events that should make us feel sympathy or kinship with the narrator.
DeleteLike you, too, I was amused by the huge loophole that Lina found in the reading contest and how smart she was to exploit it. Good for her!
1. I feel like the author is giving us a depiction of an unhealthy female friendship. That's what I was referring to when I said their relationship is so stereotypical - the details aren't but I feel there is a pervasive belief that female friendships can be fraught and unhealthy and dramatic. And perhaps they are during adolescence since bodies are charging so fast and hormones are raging through young bodies and then people are developing at different paces. But I don't like Lila. I have sympathy for her but I don't like how she treat Elena.
ReplyDelete2. I don't necessarily not trust her because she is sharing her perspective and how she is seeing things play out, but I am sure we'd get a very different story from Lila's perspective.
3. I do like their love of books and reading - I loved how they re-read Little Women so many times that the book fell apart.
4. I think I am going to pick church for my word. We will see how often it shows up!
I think the book is pretty easy to read but it's not something I like/love? But I am keeping with it because discussing it with you all adds to the experience.
I really find this book so interesting because the themes are so universal. I wasn't a child growing up in post-war Italy, but some of her experiences are things I've been through - the hating of my body during puberty, not knowing who was safe to ask questions of, the looking down because you don't want to draw attention to yourself. And that's an interesting look at human nature, I think.
DeleteIt took a minute but I found both cats in Stephany's photo! Doggo is having trouble telling the difference between my Kindle and her toys so reading with her is a bit of a challenge. Also I'm sure I would at least try the cassata, even though it sounds like there is a lot going on there.
ReplyDeleteI can't imagine going into puberty without a heads up. Yikes!
I'm having trouble concentrating and following the story - there's no way to know how much of this is just me and how much is puppy brain. But I do enjoy it and I want the answer to the mystery of why Lila disappeared at 60!
Yeah, I'd probably try the cassata. I'm just not sure if it would be TOO MUCH.
DeleteI think that Lila disappearing is an interesting mystery, too. I just can't imagine going through the trouble of literally cutting myself out of all the photos! I guess maybe they had fewer photos back then, but still!
I find it hard to read the experience of these girls growing up... basically on their own without guidance/support. Lenu doesn't seem to rely on her mom for emotional support much. Her puberty process felt raw and sad to me. It reminds me how to better support my girls. And the boys... I guess at that age, learning about dealing with boys is part of the process, but again without much guidance, it's like swimming in the ocean without direction.
ReplyDelete1. I am guessing Lila is resentful of her life, that she cannot study despite her potential, and she wants to live life through Lenu's experience. Also, she wants to prove that she can be as smart as Lenu without going to school. She relies on Lenu to live that way of life but also kind of envious of her. Complicated relationship indeed, which is very real and we all experience in some form at certain point.
2. It's not about trusting Lenu or not, it's just how it is. We only see from one perspective, the interpretation of facts from Lenu, not the full picture.
3. Their love of books might be because their own life is quite sad, unexciting?
4. word: books?
I agree with Lisa that I wouldn't have continued the book if not because of this group.. mainly because it's quite sad to read and at the time slow.
Well, I don't know if I agree with point 2 or not. It's definitely Lenu's perspective, but I don't know if she's being honest. She's presenting the facts as she knows/interprets them (maybe?), but maybe she's also putting a spin on it to make herself look better/Lila look worse. Or maybe not? It's hard to tell at this point!
DeleteI was struck by how Lenu mentions Lila's brother Rino and really seems to know him, but we hear almost nothing about her own siblings. We have almost no glimpse into her home life, other than how depressing it is and how much she fears turning into her mother.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of her mother, I wonder whether her mother were really embarrassed about Lenu's body, or that is Lenu's interpretation? I remember being so self conscious and sensitive at that age, which Lenu clearly is, feeling fat and ugly and as though her body is completely betraying me. I remember my mom looking at me once, and I started crying. I was 11 or 12, probably about to get my period for the first time. I thought she thought I was ugly. My proof? She was looking at me. Also, like you, I developed very quickly and had stretch marks for decades on my hips and breasts. They finally faded, but it took a LONG time.
I don't know whether the Solaras raped Ada or not, but that was my impression. If not, they certainly forced themselves upon her at some level. I lived in a rough neighborhood growing up, and remember the hostility of men in cars, learning not to speak to them and so on. Thankfully nothing ever happened to me worse than being called a stuck up bitch for not giving a stranger my phone number. I was also struck by her comment that it was the adult men who stared and made comments, moreso than the boys their own age.
The other thing that struck me was how little I know of Italian history. I hadn't paid attention to the fact that the country had gone through a civil war relatively recently, and really struggled to become a republic rather than a monarchy. And somehow I had glossed over the fascist government there, until Pasquale starts yelling about it at the end of chapter 15. I was struck, like, "oh yeah, they were part of the Axis powers in WWII". I've read so much fiction about England and France after the war, but not much about Italy (or Japan and Germany, for that matter).
One word I looked up was Camorra: "Italian secret society of criminals that grew to power in Naples during the 19th century."
I don't always like the way Lila treats Lenu, but like many others, I feel like this is a one way conversation. I felt badly for her, being blamed for the pizza maker (maybe) winking at her, the man at the ice cream shop, everyone wanting to dance with her at the party. She is one of those people that has a magnetic personality, and Lenu says several times that Lila is not wearing lipstick or fancy clothes or doing anything to attract attention, she just gets it anyway.
I can't help it, I love Lila. I love her curiosity, how she studies on her own (unlike Lenu, who is shocked by the idea of studying during vacation) and how she helps Lenu with her Latin and then her Greek. I love her curious mind and how she stands up to bullies.
Oh, J, your first paragraph is so interesting! We really don't know much about Lenu's siblings at all. We don't really know if she shares a room with a sibling or anything. That's so interesting - her family is totally separate from the rest of her life.
DeleteYour observation about Lenu maybe interpreting her mother as being embarrassed, but that's just her projecting is interesting, too. We were all so self-conscious, weren't we? I do think her mother probably was embarrassed to talk about the changes Lenu was going through, but that doesn't necessarily mean she was embarrassed by her.
I think the chapters were very hard because adolescence is really challenging. These poor girls had NO ONE to guide them in anything.
ReplyDeleteLenu describing her body changing was prolific. Her descriptors were spot on; it's all so strange, especially if you aren't expecting it.
The boys are pretty horrible at that age too and this resonates with me from those particular years; they were clueless too. If only they had a father who could explain how to treat a woman, but then again, the fathers were probably horrible towards their mother too. *sigh* Such a violet time.
If I should pick a word, it should be a fun one right? I'm going to go with Pizza.
I think the boys were probably even more horrific because their role models (the men) were so bad. It was interesting that Lenu noted more harassment from men than from boys and the boys are just going to learn from the men! I can't even imagine how scary it must have been to be a girl/woman just walking down the streets at this time.
DeleteI am still struggling with this book! I just don't find it very engaging and there are SO many characters and it's hard for me to keep them all straight. I never know if I need to pay CLOSE attention to a particular passage due to the characters. Do I need to care about Enzo? Or Camela? Or Ada? AHHH.
ReplyDeleteThe menstruation passages were CRAZY! It really is a scary thing the first time it happens. I remember telling my mom and then being LIVID when she told my dad, hahaha.
1) Oh, I think the relationship between the girls is very normal and typical of female friendship, especially the way it is written about in books. I don't find anything odd about it, although the toxicity of their relationship is hard to read. Lila is a hard character to root for, but I also have a lot of sympathy for her; she wants to do so much more with her life - and she is VERY smart! - but she is stuck where she is. I don't get psychopathic vibes from her at all. Just sad ones.
2) Honestly, I keep forgetting this is Elena looking back on her life, so this was a good reminder to be a little more skeptical of what she chooses to share.
3) I definitely think Elena sees the arts as a more noble career path. It is shown in the way she wants to pursue schooling and loves the library. And I imagine it's something so rare and amazing to have someone they know to have published something!
4) I'm picking the word book!
I have decided that I am focusing mostly on Lenu, Lila, the Solara brothers (who seem important), Rino, and I'm letting all the other names sort of wash over me. I actually think the author does a good job of reminding you who people are (Enzo, the boy who threw stones at us, sort of stuff), so I don't worry too much about keeping track of who is who. Maybe this will come back to bite me later, but we'll see!
DeleteSo much awkward and awful in these chapters. been pondering -
ReplyDeleteHow much is 10 lire worth? I tried to google it, but it got too complicated. I mean yay for Lenu for getting money for flashing a guy, but also I want to slap all of them.
-.
1)Maybe it's the way the book is written, or the plotting, but Lina is interesting in that enigmatic way, and the other girls whom Lenu hangs out with just ... aren't interesting. So it makes sense that Lenu is interested in Lina. And Lina seems oddly invested in Lenu.
2) "Unreliable narrator" is my least favorite trope, so I'm going to be pissed if it turns out that Lenu is one. Or even... Fight Club-style, Lina and Lenu end up being the same person....
3) I'm very intrigued by the recurring mentions of Little Women. Why Little Women??? Is it really that kind of an international best seller? (Though - Little Women is one of my Taiwanese grandmother's favorite books.) When I first read it, back in the first section, I thought, "is that THE Little Women?", because none of the references to the book felt that specific to me.
4) oooh - I don't know what word I would picked! need to ponder this.
My rudimentary googling indicates 10 lire is probably 2-3USD. Not a lot, really.
DeleteI'm pretty sure Lila and Lenu are different characters. I can promise you that, actually! (Is that a minor spoiler? Hmmmm.)
Little Women is universal. The US, Italy, AND Taiwan. Who knew?!
I thought it was so sad the way Lenu referred to her body in this. I mean, I remember feeling, embarassed etc, etc, but Lenu seems to actively hate her body. Having no idea what was happenning when you get your first period would have been so scary. My mum gave me a book about puberty and we had the talk at school. I was also pretty late getting my first period so my best friend also set me straight. I remember when I was supposed to be going away to the north coast NSW to play tennis and it was going to be hot and I realised I would be due to get my period. It was my friend who told me that if I used tampons I could go swimming, cue an awkward conversation with my mother, but she came back with a box of tampons and told me to follow the instructions. The first day we were there we all went to the beach which was both nerve wracking and painful, but I got the hang of it pretty quickly.
ReplyDeleteI had a mother and sister, so I never got The Talk or The Book, but I knew what was up because there was so much talk about menstruation in our house. But sometimes I wonder how my older sister found out about anything!
DeleteUgh. The first tampon. So hard!!
Still behind! But got to the beginning of 16 today! I don't particularly like either of the girls very much, but it gives me insight into particular relationships which I never understand, but I know exist.
ReplyDeleteMean girl friendships do exist, I guess. It's interesting to see the back and forth between the two of them, though. Sometimes it's all about helping each other (like Lila helping Lenu with the Latin breakthrough) and sometimes it's just jealousy and resentment.
DeleteI barely remember reading these chapters a couple years back.
ReplyDeleteIt was advertised as a friendship book here in Germany and I hated where this was going. I don't want to read about toxic friendships and it annoyed me a lot. I think I quite after these chapters. Will be interesting to follow along where this book is heading and if I did miss out.
Huh. I think it's a realistic portrayal of a complicated female friendship. I don't know that I think it's toxic, actually. It seems to bring out the best in both of them in many ways.
DeleteOh, adolescence is hard... not just the dynamic between boys and girls that start to develop but also friendships. Lenu and Lila's friendship seems so toxic... they can't be with each other but also not without each other and they seem to be in constant competition, but they're also the only other people they can "rely" on.
ReplyDeleteOh, that's an interesting point. Lenu and Lila's relationship is, in some ways, more constant and predictable than any other relationship in their lives. That's super interesting to think about.
Delete